Bus Trans in a 181, 091 or 002 and ?

[Madkel]

I have a 1973 181 that I am building as a Dual Sport Machine. I always wanted a THING and this is my first ACVW. It is a fun car for the whole family. However, because of the costs, I have to do the improvements in steps.

The previous owner started it by adding 15" wheels and 30" tires. He also added larger fiberglass fenders. to clear the tires. I have continued to improve on it by installing Disc brakes new tire rod ends and replacing all of the ball joints. The front end is also cut and turned.

The 1600 DP is still strong, Yes it is a bit underpowered to turn the wheels, but I have made some improvements. I added an oil filter and external cooler as well as vented dual 40/44 Kadrons and 1.4 ratio rockers. This has got me to about 73 HP so it is not too bad.

In keeping with the steps, now is the time to fix the transmission. The current trans is not the original as it has 2 sideplates. The 1st & second syncros are shot. I want to build the trans reliable and strong as I hope to go to a 2387 or so later on.

Now for the question, I have a chance to get a 091 trans in good shape for cheep. I just need to figure out what it would take to make it fit. I know that I can use the 181 CVs and that I need to replace the axels. No problem there. but....

Can the 091 fit and bolt up to the Type 1 engine?

Will the bus to bug trans mount system work?

Which system works best?

I do not think the 10 degree system will work as I do not want to cut up the body.

I want the shift rod to stay in the tunnel, will the double welded coupler system work with the 091?

If the double coupler works, how big will the extra hole be in the rear of the body to get it to accommodate the 091 nose cone and shifter?

What other challenges to make the 091 fit?

Would it be better to trade the 091 for an 002? I know that the 002 may not be a strong as the 091, but would the installation be easier/cleaner?

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for your time and help on this issue.

[Turbo_Manx_Maniac]

The 002 and 091 are physically the same size so the work to go from a type 1 to type 2 (002 or 091 BUS box) is the same.

I would use the 10 deg mount if you must have the shifter in the tunnel, otherwise you must do much more complicated fab work. To put an 091 in, it's really just the mount kit and CV flange changes.

The 091 is quite a bit stronger than the 002, and much more than a type 1. The Ring and Pinion are the weak link in a type 1, and the 4.56 in the 091 is stronger than the R&P in the 002. If you are planning a 2387, I suggest you go right to a 091, you'll end up there anyways after you break a few weaker tranny's. You can essentially put type 1, 2, 4, or 930 flanges on an 091, so no reason not to jump on it right away.

Search and you'll find threads on converting from a type 1 to a bus tranny. I have a thread on the forum showing how I did mine. I went from a type 1 swing axle to an 091 IRS setup.

[Mattt]

I have a Pyramid box (last yr 002) in my Thing with the Susp. Unl. mount(10 degree tilt mount). No cutting of the body is necessary. You will have to open up/cut the entrance to the tunnel in the torsion housing. Shift rod is in the tunnel.

In regards to the 091 vs. 002, it is my understanding that an 091 is roughly 1/2" longer than an 002....but I've never measured myself to confirm. Go with the 091, you'll be glad you did in the long run. I only went with the Pyramid box for the gear ratio, 4.86. It's a one year only box, and one year only bus box ratio. When the pyramid box gives up the ghost, I'll be switching to an 091 as I no longer need the deep gears with the 2L T-4 going in.

Type 2 CV's are the same OD as Thing/Type 4 CV's so your Thing CV's will bolt right up to any bus trans.

[Chris V]

To keep the shift linkage nice (convert to Beetle setup, so you can shift quick) and in the tunnel use a GBE600 or similar intermediate housing...to mate the Type I trans to the 091, swap to an 002 bellhousing...to do this you have to shorten the input shaft ~1/2". Alternatively you can keep the 091 bellhousing, which'll require an 091 starter (ouch $$$) and push the engine back ~1/2"

http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=12_363
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=420131

[Mattt]

To keep the shift linkage nice (convert to Beetle setup, so you can shift quick) and in the tunnel use a GBE600 or similar intermediate housing...to mate the Type I trans to the 091, swap to an 002 bellhousing...to do this you have to shorten the input shaft ~1/2". Alternatively you can keep the 091 bellhousing, which'll require an 091 starter (ouch $$$) and push the engine back ~1/2"

http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=12_363
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=420131

That is a very good alternative in my opinion. Had I not already gone with the 10* mount, I'd go this route.

[Passatman]

One thing i really don't like with the gene berg kit is that if you are to use the 091 case you will have to change the gears inside to the car gears then use the intermediate housing. What i want to do with my bug ( sorry i don't have a thing ) was to try the 002 intermediate housing and nose cone onto my 091 gearbox with the 091 gears. I now understand that you can use the gene berg intermediate housing with the original 091 gears but you need a 8mm ring between the housing and the 091 case.

Quick question guys i need some 181 stub axles how much is for this and do you guys have any real good used ones around.

[MNAirHead]

Wouldn't you need cusotom axles for this?

[Passatman]

think i read somewhere where someone was saying the thing axles could be used.