411/412 Seats.... same?
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WestyMan71
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:13 pm
411/412 Seats.... same?
My 412 is missing the driver's seat. There is a 411 with a good driver's seat (minus upholstery) at the local scrapyard. Does anyone know if there are any differences in the seats from year to year?
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wildthings
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:42 am
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Lahti411
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:23 pm
I believe you can use any model-years seats. When i restored my '72 411's seats i used several seats as part donors. I didn't notice any differences between the seats and i had no idea which model-year they originally came from. I think only the first year model ('69) had different back rests, with adjustable lumbar support. Oh, and then there were the standard and luxury seats that had different back-rests. Anyways, i believe the seat-part was always the same in every model.
I believe all US models were models that were marked here in Europe as L-model (Luxury). These models had wider back rests than the standard models. If you are going to change the back-rests from Luxury version to standard or other ways you will need all the seat bottom cover panels changed etc. So it's not as simple task as only changing the back-rest. I noticed this when i tried to replace the standard back-rests, i had in my car, with VW K-70's Luxury back-rests (yes K-70 had same back-rests as the type-4), as i wanted to have seats with head-rests. So i decided to cut the head-rest frame off from the K-70 back rest and welded it to the type-4's standard seat's frame. This was infact a great solution as i thought the L-model back-rests were too wide for my body anyways. So now i have the narrower standard model back-rests with L-models adjustable head-rests in my '72 411.
The seat and back-rest frames are not interchangeable from side to side. There are too many parts welded to the frame, that would need to be cut out and welded to the other side, to make this conversion economical. And i believe there were some structural differences in the frame so even the individual seat frames are not symmethrical.
The springs and paddings are interchangeable from side to side. Usually the drivers side springs and paddings are worn so you can take those from a passenger seat. I would also recommend to install some kind of tough (cotton or linen) support fabrick between the springs and the padding as otherwise the springs will sink into the padding, then rust, then snap and ruin your upholstery.
Hope, this explanation makes any sence....
I believe all US models were models that were marked here in Europe as L-model (Luxury). These models had wider back rests than the standard models. If you are going to change the back-rests from Luxury version to standard or other ways you will need all the seat bottom cover panels changed etc. So it's not as simple task as only changing the back-rest. I noticed this when i tried to replace the standard back-rests, i had in my car, with VW K-70's Luxury back-rests (yes K-70 had same back-rests as the type-4), as i wanted to have seats with head-rests. So i decided to cut the head-rest frame off from the K-70 back rest and welded it to the type-4's standard seat's frame. This was infact a great solution as i thought the L-model back-rests were too wide for my body anyways. So now i have the narrower standard model back-rests with L-models adjustable head-rests in my '72 411.
The seat and back-rest frames are not interchangeable from side to side. There are too many parts welded to the frame, that would need to be cut out and welded to the other side, to make this conversion economical. And i believe there were some structural differences in the frame so even the individual seat frames are not symmethrical.
The springs and paddings are interchangeable from side to side. Usually the drivers side springs and paddings are worn so you can take those from a passenger seat. I would also recommend to install some kind of tough (cotton or linen) support fabrick between the springs and the padding as otherwise the springs will sink into the padding, then rust, then snap and ruin your upholstery.
Hope, this explanation makes any sence....
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WestyMan71
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:13 pm
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
They are essentially all the same...with a few notable differences.
The front seats that fit 2 dorr saloon and variants....have the feature that allows teh back to fold forward to allow entry and exit from the back seat. The four door seats do not have this.
Also a left front seat can be swapped to right and vica versa....but you I can't remember if there is a problem with interference in the levers at the base opr the hand wheel for recline. However...if you care to disect the back of the seat....you will find that both seat frames are the same and the shaft with chain drive and all of the recliner parts can be swapped to reverse what side of the seat they are on. Ray
The front seats that fit 2 dorr saloon and variants....have the feature that allows teh back to fold forward to allow entry and exit from the back seat. The four door seats do not have this.
Also a left front seat can be swapped to right and vica versa....but you I can't remember if there is a problem with interference in the levers at the base opr the hand wheel for recline. However...if you care to disect the back of the seat....you will find that both seat frames are the same and the shaft with chain drive and all of the recliner parts can be swapped to reverse what side of the seat they are on. Ray
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WestyMan71
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:13 pm
Thanks for the info!raygreenwood wrote: The front seats that fit 2 dorr saloon and variants....have the feature that allows teh back to fold forward to allow entry and exit from the back seat. The four door seats do not have this.
The seat I need will be coming out of a two-door. Is it possible to remove this feature? I'm trying to stay as original as possible.
Also... these two cars are in my local scrapyard. If anyone wants me to take a look for anything, send me a PM, I'd be happy to.
