Refaced followers Flat or Domed

Post by **Piledriver** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:54 pm

The late (MV) cam, probably some on the others, had about the same overall timing as a web86, but the stock profile is supposedly much better for torque.

Getting the stock profile with solid lifter ramps may be a possibility?

I had web regrind me an 86/34E (34E=1600 DP) that should get tested soon w/1.4 rockers. (Life keeps getting in the way of finishing it)

The stock T4 lifters in a WBX block will send very little oil to the heads, you might want to look at that.

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:23 pm

i think the MV and DJ has the same cam
they both have 025 *** *** partnumber

the 1,9 engines i have ribbed, have had a type1 cam . well at least partnumber 113 *** ***.
If that only indicates the Camcore or the finished cam i don't know, but i think the cam is the same type 1 1600

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:12 am

Here's a few pic's

A couple of lifters. (the one is badly worn , but the other is more normal on a normal milage engine)
So a flat lifter is teoreticaly worn , but in reallife these lifter still work fine for many miles still.

Pic's of WBc cams. they more or less look like this , so i aume there is an cam/lifter issue on the WBX

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:18 am

I have been thinking of an experiment with the hydros.To get the benfits of hydros and to have a bit larger selection of cam's
It's to use those Rabbit golf adjusting puck's and TIG weld them onto the hydros.
How about welding these? pre heat to avoid warping? keep the internal parts during welding?
like the one in the left pic.(the bigfoot lifters at the right)

Post by **Piledriver** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:46 pm

I have considered brazing a tool steel shim on the lifter face and having them ground...
(Likely what the Golf shims are made from)

They are a LOT thicker than required, though, I wonder if they make tool steel shim stock ~.020" thick?

tencentlife · Post by **tencentlife** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:02 am

So are those Bigfoots (Bigfeet?) for Type 4 bores?

MV and DJ had exactly the same cam. The earlier DH 1.9 cam is very different, much less duration. MV/DJ has 225deg. @0.050".

I have measured specs for several wbx-suitable cams at home. Perhaps I'll scan my handwritten chart and post it as a jpeg.

The stock T4 lifters in a WBX block will send very little oil to the heads, you might want to look at that.

Why? Do the oiling port/grooves not align with the ports in the wbx case? I think we've been over this but please refresh my memory (a link would do).

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:27 am

Yes it's type4 bore with the larger foot.
thats why i want to keep them.

please post your cam chart!

tencentlife · Post by **tencentlife** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:32 am

I will, but I'm away from home so it will be a couple days.

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:33 am

Note the 3mmx15mm groove in the hydro.

In a WBX case, the rocker gear (and more importantly) the adjacent lifters get oil 100% of the time, as the grooves always line up with the feed holes.

The WBX suffers from the exact same oiling setup as a T1, aside from having full flow filtering.

IIRC 3 T1/WBX lifter bores are INdirectly fed by adjacent bores.
(Look closely)

With a std T4 solid lifter, you have a narrow, shallow single groove, so you will only get flow a small % of the time. (acts like a valve that is off unless lined up)

The T4s oil passages for the lifters do not go through the lifter bores ala T1/WBX... It goes above the lifter bores, straight shot, this issue does not exist. All lifter bores see full pressure 100% of the time, and it's easy to make it 100% to the rockers if so desired.

Look for Bob Hoovers HVX oiling mods, I ground channels in the lifter bores as well on the unloaded side, as is commonly done with brass bushings. Depending on the lifters you may be able to turn the bodies to achieve the same thing.

This is not as big a deal for cooling on a WBX as it will be on a Oxy or T1, but some rockers lubrication will be marginal at best without this.

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:46 am

my plan is to make the same oil groove as the hydros have , on the solid bigfoot lifters.
that has been the plan all the way.
(but the flu has set me back many days now

)
but good info on the oil channel's, did'nt know that

I wonder if the bigfoot blocks the oil from coming out between the lifterbores and the lifter , to actuallty reach the cam/lifter surface .?
on the stock type 4/wbx lifters there is straight path to the lifter surface from the lifterbore.
that's also a reason for improving the oil to the lifters.. i think.

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:57 am

by making the larger groove , i also get the weight down on these chubby lifters.

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:02 pm

Do find/read Hoovers articles on the HVX mod, good reading.

More to it than just lifters/bores.

tencentlife · Post by **tencentlife** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:13 pm

Piledriver wrote:Note the 3mmx15mm groove in the hydro.

In a WBX case, the rocker gear (and more importantly) the adjacent lifters get oil 100% of the time, as the grooves always line up with the feed holes.

The WBX suffers from the exact same oiling setup as a T1, aside from having full flow filtering.

IIRC 3 T1/WBX lifter bores are INdirectly fed by adjacent bores.
(Look closely)

With a std T4 solid lifter, you have a narrow, shallow single groove, so you will only get flow a small % of the time. (acts like a valve that is off unless lined up)

The T4s oil passages for the lifters do not go through the lifter bores ala T1/WBX... It goes above the lifter bores, straight shot, this issue does not exist. All lifter bores see full pressure 100% of the time, and it's easy to make it 100% to the rockers if so desired.

Look for Bob Hoovers HVX oiling mods, I ground channels in the lifter bores as well on the unloaded side, as is commonly done with brass bushings. Depending on the lifters you may be able to turn the bodies to achieve the same thing.

This is not as big a deal for cooling on a WBX as it will be on a Oxy or T1, but some rockers lubrication will be marginal at best without this.

I thought that was the issue, just wasn't sure what you had said about this, Greg.

In wbx cases, the lifter bores get oiled from the center out; that is, the intake lifters get oiled directly off the center cam bearing galley, and pass the oil around the lifter grooves to the exhaust lifters. There's no lifter oiling from the front and rear-end cam bearings, even though a quick glance at the case might make one think that.

I saw fastback's other thread about modding the case for lifter-face oil jets so he could use the Bigfeet. I don't see that as an important mod. The cam and lifters are under a deluge of oil exiting the rod bearings. More is often (not always!) better, so I suppose it would be a good thing, but I don't see that it's necessary.

marcotheturbosteamengine · Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:01 pm

here is my list of wbx cams that i have measured @50thou

DJ---in/238 ex/230
MV/SS---in/238 ex/185
DG---in/219 ex/222
GW---in/223 ex/222
DF/EY---in/210 ex230

all hydro cams with around 280-300thou at cam

i use c25 scats on all my rebuilds with in/ex at 234@50thou with solid scat lifters it has very good overall power on the 2.1 and realy wakes up the 1.9s..

good luck
marco mansi.......

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:10 pm

marcotheturbosteamengine wrote:here is my list of wbx cams that i have measured @50thou

MV/SS---in/238 ex/185

i use c25 scats on all my rebuilds with in/ex at 234@50thou with solid scat lifters it has very good overall power on the 2.1 and realy wakes up the 1.9s..

good luck
marco mansi.......

Sure about the ex on the MV cam??
no prøblems with cam/lifter geometri with the C-25?