type 4 trans

[raygreenwood]

No worries! your English is better than some whose primary language is English

What year is your 411? from my information...all but probably the very easrliest (68-69) should have had the cross bar at the bell housing/clutch area. See if you notice a pair of vertical holes in the body, outboard of the two top bolts. The bar is actually two piece...with a flat crosss bar that bolts to chassis which th lower bracket bar bolts to.

It sounds like you are doing everything quite correctly. Working on one and driving another.

If I might inquire....what happened to the other transmision? did it get damaged...or just worn out?
The reason I ask is that there are several dangerous wear patterns that the upper crossbar prevents.

The rear side to side adjustment and tilt should still be in the rear handger bar (the two horizontal slotted 8mm bolts at each end and the single vertical bolt at each end)...the the early outer rear hanger bar mounts are probably not the same as later models.

The only reason the top hanger bar exists is to "suspend" the transmission so that the round rubber bumper at the forward end stays centered in its bore...and does not bear against any of the sides.

Thinking that yours will need this also...but that there might not be a top bar on the early model....just reminded me that there are a pair of odd and totally unused holes in the rear beam....one on each side of the transmission. They have slightly slanted/pressed mount areas around them. A simple pair of steel eyes and a transmission strap..or even a cross bar with a rubber bushing could be installed here very quickly to create the same function. Ray

[Nico]

The gearbox I have in the 411 is:





The bracket won't fit on that gearbox I think. I also have 2 of these:



But I don't have any mounting holes in the car body for this bracket.

I don't know the exact month of build from the car only that it is a early 68.

Does anybody know the exact diverence of those two gearboxes? And do I need the bracket?

On the following drawing I also don't see the bracket.

[raygreenwood]

Ah!...I had forgotten! it is rare that we even see the early ones here. But the need for the brace is real. That need is probably one of the primary reasons for the re-design.

The problem is this: When the transmission rests on the tail bushing and the rear hanger bar....it causes the housing to flex. Once you have taken one of these apart you will understand. The main gear shaft is also the pinion shaft. It cause flexing of that part causing overall more wear to the mesh area of the pinion and ring gear and to the meshing of the mainshaft gears with the counter gear cluster. It also flexes the main drive shaft which runs full length. This causes premature wear to the large ball bearing at the end of the main shaft.

The wear and problems are alomst identical to those with the oil pump drive in the automatic vehicles when you run without the transmission case being properly supported. In short...the life of the earlier transmission is shorter.

But....look at your last diagram. The one with the transmission installed in the rear trailing member. The one thet shows the nuts that hold the tranmsision cone mount on the backside of the beam.

Do you see those two non-distinct indentations...one on each side of the square boss in the beam where the tailcone mount is? Those are through holes. Their purpose...I have never known but I suspect they are for an assembly jig/fixture.

They could easily be used to install a rubber padded bar that loops under the transmission case to take load off of the rear tail cone mount. Ray

[Nico]

Hi Ray,

Thanks for you're reply. I understand what you say, so I think I will make a extra support.

My old gearbox had a lot of problems. At first the number one gear bumps out, and in a several minutes the reverse also.
So I don't know what I will find in this gearbox. That is the reason that I bought a couple of type 4 tranny's.

Today I refurbished my clutch slave cylinder. I hone the inside and put new rubbers in it.
So the inside is like new. I was very happy that I could buy new rubbers today. Only replace the bleed valve and I can instal it.

Greets Nico

[Nico]

Does anyone have a picture where the gearbox is mounted with the crossbar to the car body?
It's hard to find some nice and clear pictures on the internet.

Thanks

Nico

[vonkr]

Nico,

I probably have some pics in the technical manuel, but I have to scan them first.
I try to find and scan them next week.

Try to find a manuel yourself, most of them are not cheap, but they will help in
situations like this.

You'll find pictures like this:



And check also on http://www.keversite.nl there are a lot experts there as well...

[Nico]

I have two manuals myself, but they are not very helpful for the transmission. If you wan't to scan parts of the manual I would be very happy. What is a good manual for the transmission? Then I can look for it, and buy it.
Thanks.

[raygreenwood]

What manual is that? I ahve never seen that manual. I would pay for a scan of it.
I have a different set of gauges that were outlined in the cylmer manual to do the same thing (drivetrain alignment). The key is to (a) place the shift rod in the correct position for correct shifting and (b) to take any strain off of the transmission bushing. Ray

[Nico]

Hi Ronald,

What brand is the manuel? I can make a digital version out of it. (my wife can do that on here job)
I've bought the steerhouse and (stuurstang) from you a Month ago.
So I know the Keversite.nl but I can't find as much 411 info there as I can find here.

Nico

[vonkr]

It is the original repair manual from VW

You can lend it for copy / scanning, send me a pm.

I try to scan a few pages of the transmission for Ray and others this week.

[Nico]

You've got PM.
Thanks for the offer.

Thanks,
Nico

[fusername]

that is actually the manual I picked up and started this thread over, however mine are in english. The type 4 specific manuals are for sale for a very good price IF the buyer makes a scan of all the T4 engine related chapters and sends me them as a PDF or what have you.

[raygreenwood]

Again....would someone tell me WHAT manual that is...name...author...company that published it...ISBN something. I realize its a VW book....but if you can tell me the ISBN and/or...the words on the cover..the title.... I can probably find it. Its bizzare to me that with 30 years of working on 411/412 almost exclusivly.....I have yet to see one of those. Ray

[Nico]

Ray,

You've got PM.

Nico

[fusername]

it is a hard bound blue book, only has a huge VW on the front and says somethign along the lines of "Type 4 provisional manual Part 1"
you know how vw had the H, G, B, C etc manual lines? this is the T4 specific one, two parts.

*edit*
just found half of one for sale, really good price from what i have seen in the past
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=975103