Building Manxter DualSport to Race NORRA Mexican 1000

[DesertGuy]

The Manxter 'roof support system' is simply a decorative piece... it has a neat look that fits the look of the vehicle but is far from a safety related item, IMO. The NORRA rules do state the responsibility is with the vehicle owner (which is an understood rule from any sanctioning body, from a liability standpoint) but even NORRA follows basic design requirements similar to SCORE and the like. It would be fairly easy to design a SCORE compliant cage and follow the 'basic look' of the Manxter - it may not have the Artic Cat look but could easily be achieved... and retain the rear seat.

Good Luck, look forward to seeing it finished.

[Iguana]

The Manxter 'roof support system' is simply a decorative piece....

That's an interesting comment as if I had the choice between racing with a decorative piece or without then I would take the decorative piece any day of the week. Based on that alone I would suggest that calling it a decorative piece is a bit more of an internet comment than a statement of fact.

I have seen the results of several Manxter Roll Overs and none of them have resulted in Roof Support or occupant damage or injury, that alone shows that it is a great deal more than a decorative piece.

The Manxter Race Car that ran SCORE BAJA 1000 was one of those which has been rolled and it had no issues.



All that being said I would be interested in hearing your suggestions about what changes / redesigns should be made to improve the safety of the Support System. I am open to any changes that we can make to improve the product as at the end of the day a quality product is of more interest to me then having any sort of online argument.

Just for interest the guys I am working with on the cage have been building Race cars for over 30 years and regularly make vehicles that race all around the world including Dakar etc. They have had a lot of experience and seen a lot of the results in many areas but we are always open to input from others as no one knows anything and as soon as you think you do it is the first sign of failure.

[Iguana]

ok so do you have any suggestions of what should be changed and included ?

The picture you posted from Top down, the Orange one raced Mexican 1000 this year (2014)

The second one is the Manxter Baja Race Car which was sort of a hybrid thing which started with a stock Manxter Cage and then got modified by a heap of different people. If you look at it compared to the 1st one you will see the outboard supports tieing the 3 hoops together. The Baja Edition will have these as well as the center ties. These will be slightly different to allow the hard top to still fit. In the rear of the Baja Race car there was no option for a rear seat and the side braces would have hit heads if there was. The Baja Edition will have the cross bracing but it will be bolt in rather than welded, same with the harness bar and tire mounts etc.

The last one is a Mendeolla build which is a stock Manxter Dual Sport Cage which has a single bar added behind the rear seat and side ladders added. The Baja Edition will have more top side bracing then that as I am worried about the hoop shoulders being able to fold around the place.

If you are suggesting that the Manxter Baja Race car shown above is acceptable then that is a good thing as the Baja Edition will have more support than what it does so it will be safer than what that car was and be made from better material with better termination, gussets, feet plates and hardware.





As I said up the top the major issue with doing a SCORE Cage is that several of my braces will bolt in rather than be welded and my understanding is that this is not allowed in SCORE, although I could be wrong.

[Iguana]

hmmm I see desert Guy just deleted the post I responded to, what gives ?

[TimS]

What I'm getting out of this is that everything for this race car will be able to be purchased with minimal fab? If so, that's a very cool and marketable concept. Keep the updates coming...

[Iguana]

What I'm getting out of this is that everything for this race car will be able to be purchased with minimal fab? If so, that's a very cool and marketable concept. Keep the updates coming...

You are 100% spot on. Anything we are missing will be put into production and added to the inventory.

We are working closely with our suppliers and when we are done you will be able to purchase the parts we use direct from them with part number or from Meyers Manx.

The aim is o to have a picking list for every item you would need to build the Manxter DualSport and know what your end result will be if you follow the recipe right down to shock valving and spring rates.

The Manxter DualSport Baja Edition Chassis will be complete and only sold with the Manxter DualSport Kit as a Pair bolted together. This way we can ensure that they fit and work correctly.

The Chassis will be complete and rolling with Disc Brakes fitted, 3x3 rear arms, 4" over front arms, combo spindles, coil over shocks, wheels and tires etc.

It is still being discussed as to if people will be allowed to opt out of things but at this stage it is an all nothing approach. This is so that it can be setup correctly. If we allowed people to change front arms for example then we would have to accept that the front shock hoops, lower mount position etc would need to change and this in turn may effect valving and spring rates.

It also allows us to price it more aggressively and use our buying power and accounts to reduce items to well below what people would pay retail etc and thus use the money saved to add additional stuff.

The aim with the cost is to make it affordable and hopefully get it to the point where the sum of the parts is about the same as buying it complete.

Once done the first Baja Edition DualSport will be in Valley Center and available for people to test drive so they can see the finished result and decide if it is for them or not.

You will still be able o buy the standard dual sport kit etc there is no change there, this is an additional item not replacing anything.

I hope it all works out, guess time will tell but since we have only allowed 14 days to put it all together it will soon show up if we have screwed something up.

I am confident it is a marketable concept if we can keep the cost down to a reasonable level.

[Iguana]

Well our entry went in today with NORRA so I guess that is another $4k we have spent on the project so far.

It looks like we will have the Race Number of 00 which we thought was fitting since it was the first time this class had raced and in the case of the team the first time most of us have even been to Mexico yet alone raced there. Thankfully what we lack in experience we make up for in enthusiasm and mentors.

So the wheels are turning,

It looks like the Meyers Manx DualSport Chassis will begin its life on the fabricators bench on Monday so although not technically part of this build I will be sure to cover what goes into it and what benefits it will offer over most floor pans.

We have also hooked up with a few quality suppliers such as PRP Seats (PRPSeats.com) and Down South Motorsports (http://downsouthmotorsports.com/) so we are happier knowing that both our rear ends and the buggies will be properly suspended and setup by some industry leaders.

As we start getting parts in we will make sure we cover exactly why we have gone the way we have and what goes into prepping the parts to Baja Edition Level.

Should be an exciting ride and some of the parts we have are fresh of the release table so have never been seen before

[Iguana]

Well the days are going by faster than I hoped and with my multiple hats on I am very glad to have several awesome vendors to work with to ensure it all goes to plan.

I guess there are two things going on here that will make this build a little bit confusing but I am keen to keep everyone up to date so they get a good understanding of what Meyers Manx is bringing to Market.

The 'Actual' build of Manxter DS # 31 will begin on 3 April when Paul arrives from Australia and we assemble the team. The Build of the Buggy is based upon the new Manxter DualSport Baja Edition Kit which takes the guess work out of building a DualSport that works. The DualSport Baja Edition ( DSBE) as it will be called is a complete DualSport Kit, with DualSport Chassis and then the Baja Edition Options which is the complete suspension, fox shocks, arms, spindles, hubs, brakes, pedals, steering etc. The aim here is to bring to market a rolling DualSport Solution and show that from the Baja Edition Kit to Racing can be done in around 3 Weeks .. Yep 21 days from Kit to heading South for Tech Inspection.

Big Call huh

Now as luck or fate may have it I am also working on the actual Baja Edition Kit so prior to 3 April I will be making sure we have everything sorted and can offer a solution that is in line with the Quality and Experience Meyers Manx has.

With this being said part of the experience Meyers Manx has is access to some industry leaders who are at the top of the game. By working closely with these guys we can ensure that we bring to market the best Baja Edition Possible.

The Buggy will be built on a Manxter DualSport Kit and Manxter DualSport Chassis.

Some of the guys we are working with are :

PRP Seats (PRPSeats.com) - when it comes to Suspension seats PRP is up there with the best. Aaron and his team are the most accommodating and easy to work with guys I have found. They are willing to work with you to make sure the end product is exactly what you need. We will be working closely with them on one of their new seat designs that will suit the Baja Edition perfectly. Window Nets, Harness and Tool Bags will also be provided to make sure all the right stuff is kept in the right place.

DivPro - In order to get the Barwork up to spec we will be going with a 1020 DOM solution fully Tig Welded with some design tweaks from Ron and the guys. When you have spent as many years as Ron has building buggies and Offroad race cars there is a fair chance your designs will be spot on. Ron was a driving force in Chenowth Buggies so isn't short on experience or talent.

Down South Motorsports - No point building a Manxter if it isn't setup to perform. When it comes to the science of shocks and coils I haven't found to many better than Sonny at Down South. He will be handling the valveing and setup out the Fox 2.5 Coil Overs on each corner and making sure they are built to perform. (downsouthmotorsports.com)

SubiWorks - In order to ensure we get to the end we will be running a Subaru Engine and 5 Speed Transmission. Chris from Subiworks ( subiworks.com) is in charge of making this happen and with his background in race and rally it is certain to be done well. Engine will be a SOHC EJ25 with factory ECU and MAP Sensor Manifold. Transmission with be a SubaruGears 5 speed with 4.86 R&P on a 758 GearSet.

Method Wheels - getting the drive to the ground is an important part of any car, even more so somewhere like baja. When it comes to wheels and quality we needed to look no further than Temecula and Method Race Wheels (http://www.methodracewheels.com) . Having had their wheels on several buggies now I was very happy with the quality and toughness. I can't think of a better wheel to bang around on for the over 2000 mile trip we will be doing not long after finishing the build.

Jamar - After a run of recent issues with EMPI stub axles there was no chance in I would be running any of them on the Baja Edition unless there was no other option. Being stuck with yet another broken Type 1 stub axle Micro Stubs where the only option worth looking at. With that decision made you can't go past the Jamar Pro X series of brakes, pedals and shifters. Made right here in the USA their quality has continued to improve and the Pro X series is simply awesome. With 4 pot callipers ll round and 11" rotors to clamp onto I am more than happy they will be able to pull up whatever the Subaru Engine and SubaruGear transmission can push forward. (http://www.jamarperformance.com/)

Dan's Parts - On any buggy build navigating through the world and Crap and Not Crap parts is not an easy thing to do. Luckily for me I have a wealth of knowledge in Dan from Dan's Performance parts and he will be helping me avoiding the stuff that don't work and providing me with the stuff that does. (http://www.dansperformanceparts.com) - check out his new website !!

Added to the above list are the great resources of the Manx Club and all the other mad Buggy Mates I have.

Looking forward to brining it all together and hopefully you will enjoy the read.

The DualSport Chassis goes into the Fabrication Bay next week so stay tuned for updates and Fabrication Porn !!!

[bajaherbie]

good call on ditching the empi stub axles!

[Leatherneck]

Want to put some of your guys in here please do.
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=129270

[Iguana]

Well he count down is almost on, I say almost as I never did like large numbers so figured I would wait till it hit double digits.

Winnie was to quick for me though and with 103 Days till Tech Inspection the Floor Pan for the Manxter DualSport arrived.

It is a VW Type 1 Super Bug pan and it will be getting submitted to the special Meyers Manx DualSports Over Haul which has been the result of months or research, weeks of planning and decades of experience.

Looks like it will at least need a pressure wash, I don't want dirt on the jig table ..

[Iguana]

So I took the pan over to Gonzalez Media Blasting today. I can't recommend them enough they did a great job and being what I call wet blasting it removes grease as well as all that horrible tar paper stuff VW's have. Louis and the boys have done a lot of pans for me and I have always been very happy with the result. I make sure I get the inside of the tunnel done and flushed as well.

It was to dark when he finished to get a picture but here is a link to his page and a quick video of some of the others he has done for me :

https://www.facebook.com/Gonzalezmediablasting

[Turbo_Manx_Maniac]

Just curious why your bothering with a pan on this car? Seems like a lot of unnecessary weight and compromise. Is it necessary for the class?

[Iguana]

Just curious why your bothering with a pan on this car? Seems like a lot of unnecessary weight and compromise. Is it necessary for the class?

Thanks for the question, we are retaining the Type 1 floor pan for a number of reasons.

Firstly we are building a DualSport Buggy not a race car so it needs to be DMV Compliant. Retaining the Type 1 floor pan achieves this.

The torsional strength of the VW floor pan relative to its weight and cost far out weighs any alternative. I am sure this will create some argument and if someone really wants to get into a pissing competition I would be more than happy for them to bring their Tube Frame Buggy over and we can do a torsion and beam test on the Manxter DualSport and theirs.

This is the same reason for me not webbing the side like I have seen so many do. There is simply no reason at all on a Manxter as the fiberglass does the job just fine and from what I understand the webbing started in non bodied cars such as rails and came back into buggies.

I expect the Manxter DualSport to come in at around 2000 lbs and hope for it in race trim with drive and co-pilot to be around 2500 lbs.

I guess time will tell on the above comments and is one of the main reasons I have agreed to race the Mexican 1000 to put my ideas and designs where my mouth is and show the Manxter DualSport is happy to Race the Mexican 1000 and then drive home. I am well aware it is not the Baja 1000 and that is one of the many reasons I am not calling it a Race Car, rather a DualSport I am entering a race with.

[Iguana]

Got a chance to go and Visit PRP Seats (prpseats.com) today and have a chat to Aaron and the Team about our needs for the Manxter DualSports Baja Edition Build. It was a refreshing change to find a business that was receptive to our ideas and since PRP Still makes their seats 100% in the USA getting some custom changes was an easy process.

PRP was able to offer us a great range of custom fabrics, styles and trims. We got to walk around the show room and test fit the models that they had and discuses what would work best for the 2000 plus mill Mexican Trip we will christen the car with.

We got a heap of pics and videos of the seats being made and we will get it edited up and loaded onto youTube. It was very interesting to see how they did it and I was impressed by the variable height rotating fixtures they use to make the seat frames. By setting up each of the welders with a ergonomically sound work station it was plain impressive to watch them pump out quality welds join after join. The Fab shop itself was very well laid out and probably one of the cleanest setups I have seen in a lot of years.

Anyway we are starting to get very excited now as at least we feel like we are moving in the right direction as the days get less and less.