Thoughts? Cam combos?

[Schweg]

Madmike, are you suggesting pushing for heads before a cam?

If so then I will start looking that direction.

[madmike]

what I'm saying is Buguys heads are to small valved for his cam & displacement ,, if it was say a 1915cc and some 40 x 25 valves he'd be 'Golden'

[buguy]

I agree. I can tell you, at least for me, I wouldn't open the case just for a cam swap. It just isn't worth it. I thought that the port work would be enough, but it wasn't. Obviously there are guys out there that have done it, but I think it's super situational. You would have to be really good with porting and I think you would need a stellar valve job. I'm not saying a bump up in cam wouldn't help, but in my opinion, it's not going to help enough by itself.
That's why I mentioned some decent heads, a cam, and then getting the slip in case/machine in heads 88mm pistons would be great. That would require no case machining, but with the bigger bore in the heads the valves could be bigger and valves more unshrouded for even more flow. That would change everything.

[madmike]

I would never use 88mm ,,It's no big deal to split a case,, bore it for Thick wall 92mm which is basically a bored for 94mm sleeves

[Schweg]

Madmike,

You make it sound so simple!

I’m intimidated by the unknown with these engines for some reason!?! I have had many a motorcycle engine torn down to cases.

If your saying slip ins are a no go then I’m guessing more research is needed.

Schweg

[buguy]

To each their own. 88's are thicker at the top than a stock cylinder. Thinner at the bottom of course. But it's supported by the case in that area. I don't disagree though. If you don't mind doing the case work, may as well do 92/94 bore. That said I believe Art has like 40,000 miles on his 88's. Big boost on top of it. I wouldn't be scared.
Schweg, I was intimidated too when I did mine. Turns out it isn't bad at all. Really I was mostly more worried about getting the case to seal than anything.

[Schweg]

To each their own. 88's are thicker at the top than a stock cylinder. Thinner at the bottom of course. But it's supported by the case in that area. I don't disagree though. If you don't mind doing the case work, may as well do 92/94 bore. That said I believe Art has like 40,000 miles on his 88's. Big boost on top of it. I wouldn't be scared.
Schweg, I was intimidated too when I did mine. Turns out it isn't bad at all. Really I was mostly more worried about getting the case to seal than anything.

All valid points! I wasn’t sure art was running but that Does lessen some concerns on what they could handle.

I guess I’ve read to many horror stories on the samba but I should know better. It’s just that people make the assembly sound like a lost art for big motors

[panel]

Schweg.......did you read this post re cams?

https://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=106178

[Schweg]

Schweg.......did you read this post re cams?

https://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=106178

I have that favorited and I have gone through some of it. Gonna read it again and take some notes.

All of this initially was a question about low bugget items. Though I have a ton of questions about options for steps foreword.

I was interested in that combo to get all the things I think I need? But I’m open to opinions on what items should be upgraded and when?

[buguy]

Well I would only run 88's if you don't have the means, or just don't want to bore the case. We've seen Art make great power on 88's, Kalle and a couple others on 87's which would be a stock size bore heads. Was it Nikolas that made damn near 400 hp on a stock head? I think Rodney Adams made 300 hp on a stock size 1600. So it's all been done, but it comes down to had bad ($$) you want the power.
You might be on the right track. Probably the most economical way to make more power would be with more boost. Maybe build your compounds and see where it's at? Or if you want some real economical power, as I said before, it's hard to beat nitrous.
As for a combo, there are many ways to go about it, but you really need to know what your after. If you want to try a cam, give one a shot. If I had it to do again I think I would go for the Web 119 or maybe the Web 218. Problem with the web cams is they are kind of pricey. I think my web cam was $175 when I had mine made on a 112 lobe. W100 for a much better price.

[madmike]

If you have split Motorcycle motors you can do a VW Trial fit all the bearings and mark with a sharpie/pencil double check everything

[Schweg]

Honestly I’m not sure what my goal is other then fast and have fun.

Right now it’s quick and fun.

Madmike- I just need to read a bit more on it. And maybe find one to tear apart.

[buguy]

That's where I was too. I was just trying to make something good.... Even better. Had nothing to compare it to. So for me it's also about learning. Education isn't free, so swapping parts is the tuition! And I really don't mind it. That's why I ended up getting a cam that was a bit bigger than anyone else was using. I already knew a W100 would work well....but what about a 112 lobe, and a bit more duration, and advancing it... Etc.
Next logical step would be heads, and 1.25 rockers. That's an expensive step and one I won't take lightly. Mario ran the numbers and says I'm already out of the efficiency range for my turbo too. Everyone says the heads are where the power is made. Maybe soon we will see.
Maybe try adding a little timing? I'm on E85 so do some research! Don't listen to me on that! I'm at 14 or so at idle and ramp to 40 degrees at cruise. I used to have it at 35 degrees at cruise, and just that little bump made mine spool more quickly.

[Schweg]

I’m working on the research part. These conversations help kind of ward off my ADD and allow me to sort of “bench race” my thoughts.

E85 will happen just not sure what injectors yet I’m leaning towards injector dynamics 1050x so I have some room to grow up to 40-50 psi on e85.

As for the turbo efficiency and what not, unless your buying a new turbo we are all treading off somewhere. Weather that’s running 30psi at 60% efficiency or falling well below the surge line. But the learning portion on turbos is fun for sure.

I’m thinking of hitting the local VW shop and grabbing some used stock heads.
Then cut them for bigger valves and dual springs before a cam change. Just to see the results, into know that power should be in the heads I’m interested to see how much.

That and I have some interesting ideas floating around that I have always wanted to try to some heads laying around may help with brainstorming.

[buguy]

I would like to have some of those ID injectors, but damn they are $$$!
I was safe running about 23-24 psi on my 450cc injectors, and now with my 850cc's the most I've seen so far was like 67% duty cycle at about 28 psi. These injectors are just cheap eBay ones. Seem to be fine so far. Probably have 800-1000 miles on them now.
Make sure you price out what it will cost to have the seats cut. By the time you cut them (if they can be) possibly replacing the guides, getting a valve job, and buying springs and new valves, and having the seats cut for dual springs.... You might be money ahead to just buy new ones?
$200 each for big valve with dual springs
http://carcraftstore.com/cylinderheads-stocktowild.aspx