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Eric my rear setup is 091 transaxle,bus axles,2 1/2 X 2 1/2 rear arms. Because of the different dimensions of the arms new upper and lower shock mounts will need to be fabricated which is what I did. I still have drums and will upgrade that when I can afford a quality set up that will allow me to remain wide five without adapters.
The Suby is good if you need that much power. You were talking about 125 HP before and that is easily done with just a mild T-4 engine. Did you look at Thomas Ainleys Suby conversion at the link i gave you.? Pretty cool is`nt it? I agree that carbs are better than a turbo for a daily driven or off-road car. You already have the start of a nice car. Keep it up! Good luck. Bob Ingman

This thread is way cool. It started out with upcoming shows and went on to cover a multitude of issues that I am facing/underestand and have info to share.

Exhaust: I arranged a Kymco group buy for Thingsters last year and it turned into a real nightmare. Most of us got overcharged $94 and had delays and mistakes and what makes it all worse is that MY EXHAUST SYSTEM DOES NOT FIT ON MY THING!!! I NOW EVEN REALIZE THAT I WAS SENT TWO RIGHT HEAT EXCHANGERS. YIKES Sadly there are even more missalignment and foul up wiht this exhaust system that I will need to correct if it is to ever work. So now I will have to go back to Janet at Kymco and hope for resolution.

Subaru conversion: We have a RoMTOC club member who lives in Michigan (Cliff Harter) http://my.voyager.net/~charter/ who runs buggys and is currently putting a V6 GM motor in his Thing. He has tons of information that would be useful for anyone putting in a WC in an AC car and is a realy nice guy who enjoys sharing info with other vehicle fabricators.

Part Two : If you plan on using the EJ 25 subaru series motor 4 cylinder 2.5 liter AVOID the single cam motore at all costs. It has a major design flaw that will come back to haunt you. The EJ 25 dual cam is the motor of choice.

K-mann

Hey Kubelmann, tell me more about your Thing. Thanks for letting me know about the Single cam engine. I still need to talk to the engine guys for what engine I should run.

Bob, what size tire are you running in the rear? You say your using 2 1/2 X 2 1/2 rear arms, does this center the wheel in the rear? I am currently running a 31x 10.5 in the rear and the wheel is forward and not centered under the fender. I also have coilovers going thru my body and connected to my roll cage. I talked to someone who said I should just go with 1 inch wider rear arms. He said anymore than that would cause you to cut away sheet metal and do body work.

What suspension are you using in the front?

I forgot to mention that a man I have run into twice already has a thing with A arm suspension in the front and a mazada rotary turbo engine. He just needs some more minor work to get the Thing running.

Bob, I had one more question. I don't have a 091 transmission like I thought but rather a porsche tranny from a 914. What do you think about this tranny? Should I swap it out for a 091 or just have it built up better?[/quote]

Eric, My Thing has been built using as many VW/Porsche parts as possible. The front end is cut and turned up 3/16" and now needs a hook and pin install to protect the ball joints. I wish I had put in adjusters. Every part of Herr K has been disassemble, cleaned, por 15 and put back with urethane bush or better. Unlike others, I have done all the work myself. I have had help from great experts along the way. My boy has not been drop off at the shop and you solve my issue trips. My front end and ass end have Sway-A-Way 7/8" sway bars with some cool mods. My rear end has 85 Porsche diagonal bars with the Porsche 11" disc brakes on a 5x130 hubs. The front brakes are Ghia discs that will end up 5x130 on Porsche 14 mm Porsche studs. I run real Centerline rims. 7x15 front and 10x15 rear. My trans axle is a true Thing/091 box that Weddle Industries built all the interior parts and close ratio gears and hand packed needle bearings and hand built shims. My diff is a real Quaffe 4 gear 11 tooth spider geared true LSD. My brake system consists of a biased braking system that has a T-3 bias pressure master cylinder and Porsche ebrake system. My motor was custom built by Johm Massengale to extreme engineering specs. It is a 1915 that was constructed to perform certain functions. Recently it gave a dyno report of 112 bhp at 3200 at the wheels. BtW it hahs more torque that hp by design. It breathes through a pair of high rise manifolded Dellorto 45s with a few mods. The dyno report was clocked at 6200" elevation. Consider what it would clock at sea level.. I suspect it would run a bit rich. I have not even touched the surface of the part in Herr Kubelmann in this semi-essay. I have more than a few parts to machine to get this bomb back on the trail. Herr Kubelmann in his past life was part of historical reenactnements as a WWII German radio car used in the North of France in the Guderian campaign. As such it has an historically accurate paint job. Some day I plan to work on the exterior. For now I just want to get him back on the road again. If you would like to see a picture of him at the start of my project check him out at www.RoMTOC.com K-mann

Bob Ingman wrote:Eric it would appear that I need at least rear fenders but actually the opposite is true. I need at least front fenders form a practicle stand point.
When I installed the running boards they acted as mud flaps for the front tires. When I widened the beam by six inches I lost that advantage. Now I am constantly mud covered. This it must be realized includes my curtains so that vision to the sides becomes impossible. Its a wet climate here in the Tongass National (rain )Forest. Its not an occasional inconvience but a constant. As far as the rears go that would be more cosmetic than anything. I throw a rooster tail but if it hits you you`re following too close. If I was in a dry climate it would matter not to me. The law here is not a factor so I do not have to worry about being ticketed.
Right now I favor the exact arrangement you have for fenders as being best for my particular need. Did you look at the exhaust systems I suggested? Best of luck. Bob Ingman

Bob, what you need are a pair of SoCal front fenders. It will help with tire clearance, & it will cover the tires much better. They are somewhere around 2.5" wider each side. Then for the rear, you could go with a set of rears like I have that are wider and taller. They arent so boxey/bulky like the wider only rears. Youve seen the pics, right?

And I forgot, there was a girl at the Thing Shop show yesterday that was selling a set, never even installed. Id imagine they were less than full pop.

Hi Matt, its Eric. I will talk to you more at the GMW show when you bring your Thing in. It sounds awesome. Where did you get your rear fenders that you are telling Bob about?

That girl was selling the front and rear So-cal fenders for $350 but I'm pretty sure she could be talked down. I don't think she sold them but I don't know who she is either.

She was selling fronts AND rears for $350? Thats a deal if so. I only saw the fronts laying there. There were loaded in her car when she left. Maybe she sold the rears, but not the fronts. If its just the fronts for $350 she is smoking some serious rock.

My rear fenders are a custom set. I only know of one other set out there. They are prerunner rear fenders since they are taller, wider wheel opening, as well as wider overall. The nice thing about them too is that they bolt in stock location. You can see before & after pics at the link below. Some day soon, Ill probably have a few sets available for sale. $300 a set.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/dumbguy1234

Im responding to various things in various posts on this thread. Sorry for the length of this.

Eric, its highly unlikely you have a 914 trans. The 914 was a mid engine, rear trans car. I dont think(Im not positive here) its possible to convert the 914 trans over to rear engine, mid trans setup. Besides,,,,,for the amount of work it would entail, it probably wouldnt be worth it. Especially when you consider how easy & cheap a bus box install is. Put in a bus trans, you will be happier in the long run. Its way stronger, and has better gearing. If you dont want to sweat trannies, go Bus, 091 being the best, then Pyramid, then 3 rib. The T1 trans will not hold up.

In regards to Subie conversions.....Thomas A was going to do an 2.2 EJ22 motor ~130HP conversion. Power improvement over stock, but not what a 2.5 will give you. A nice install where the price of the motor alone doesnt break the bank. You can pick up 2.2s out of most yards for under a $grand.
Im planning on doing a Single Cam 2.5 sometime next year. Im leaning towards the Single Cam motor, but if the right Dual Cam comes along it will work. Ive got other Things Im trying to take care of on my car before the Subie swap. I know RW said to stay away from the SOHC 2.5, but the head gasket problem can be overcome. The advantages to the SOHC are numerous. Its smaller dimensionally(easier install), its a newer gen. motor, the SOHCs out there will have fewer miles racked up since they are newer, most yards know everyone wants the DOHC for sandrail conversions and that jacks the price up, and its makes good power in stock form. I found a yard with a roll'd-over Outback with 110K miles on it and he wanted $1500 for the engine package(no radiator). The DOHC 2.5 isnt a bad motor, but maintenance/overhaul is a bit more cumbersome since there are dual cams instead of one. You can acquire a JDM 2.0Turbo for a great price, and that is a close runner up to the 2.5 Naturally Aspirated. Ive been told for the weight of the Thing, the 2.0T power is a bit too peaky, the 2.5 has better low end torque that will power the Thing thru the stuff at lower RPM. The 2.0T would require you to spin it higher RPM to get into the powerband, better for a light car. And, if you start with a 2.5 NA you can always turbo it later and have 350ish HP easy. Its a better starting point,,,,building wise. Bob made a comment about carburetors and such, these Subarus are Fuel Injected only.
I think 200hp with a decent Torque # is what would make our PIG heavy Things really perform. For street driving alone, you can get by with less, but any serious off road driving will suck RWHP right out of a 120ish hp motor quicker than I can type(think sand, loose silt, mud, & larger tire).

Dont even consider a Subaru unless you are going to at least front disc brakes. Its crazy to throw that kind of power at a car with inadequate brakes at best. Going is nice.......Stopping is Much More Important.

The correct rear trailing arm to center the rear wheel in the fender opening is a +1" longer arm. They are commonly referred to as a 5/1600 rear arm. 1" wider wont push the wheel further back. You can run 2.5" wider/longer or 3X3s, but if you go to full compression the tire will hit your rear fender opening. I think Bob is running 235s in the rear. Have you thought about running a body lift also? Things need as much clearance help as they can get.

Where have you run into the A Arm Thing guy with turbo rotary? Id like to meet him and see his creation. Ive seen pics of an A arm front ended Thing at a place in Mira Loma, CA called Extreme Fabrication. Nice looking setup,,,,starts at $4500 without shocks IIRC.


What do you mean by this........"We need to talk about the matter of the arms controlling the angle of the rear wheels"???

King/Link pin front end is possible, but be ready to drop cash and cut away on your car. The K/L front end will not bolt up to a Thing. Best way to accomplish that front end is cut off the frame head, build a chassis into the car and run a K/L front end off the chassis pushed forward from stock location. Pushing the beam forward a few inches allows you to run aftermarket longer/stronger trailing arms without having tires smashing fenders.

ericj8 wrote:Well, the Thing show was very HOT. They had about 53 Things enter into the show. And after talking to many people, Bob was right and I do have a porsche 914 tranny and engine.

If you want to find out what T4 engine you have, go to Type 4 Secrets that is up where Type 4rum is and look up your case ID. There is a complete chart in "Reference" IIRC that covers every T4.

There are a few other places doing Subarus besides Pantera Spec. Pick up a Sand Sports Magazine to see their ads.

Outback Motorsports is first in mind
C & G Performance
just to name two, there are others.....

Hi Matt,

I know of Outback but Pantera seems to have a better deal. But I'm still in the shopping stage before I make my final descision. Thanks for the other recommendations.

Well, I had that guy from the tranny place at the Thing show look at my car and he said it was indeed a 914 tranny and engine. I asked him if I should go with the 091 and he said I could beef up my current tranny for $1500 to be as good as a bus tranny. The only downside about a 914 tranny is parts are expensive he said.

I only briefly talked to Lance over at Pantera and he told me the engine he would recommend is a 2.5L non turbo Subaru. He calls it a "pre-runner engine". He wanted about $3500 but it came with everything but a raditor. I am planning on going down to his shop one of these days.

I am trying to stay away from a body lift because I don't really like the way it looks but I know its a much better setup. I wouldn't mind cutting away at my Thing since it already has been.

The guy with the A-arm and rotary was at the Things in the Sun show and I have seen him at the Pomona swap meet. I think he said he lives somewhere near La Habra or something. Hes been working on it himself for about a couple of years and its in the final stages of being complete.

I was asking Bob about what size the trailing arm has to be to center the wheel.

I have a friend at work who is building a buggy and he is trying to convert balljoints into linkpin. I'm not sure how but if it works for him, I might do the same for my Thing.

I also plan on going to the Baja Shop and ask them for recommendations on how I can really fix up my Thing suspension wise.

The rear fenders she was selling were just the stock width and they were on her car. When she bought her Thing, the owner was trying to do a Baja style but she wants more of an original look so she took them off.

Let me know when you do sell those fenders. They don't look that bad.

ericj8 wrote:Hi Matt,

I know of Outback but Pantera seems to have a better deal. But I'm still in the shopping stage before I make my final descision. Thanks for the other recommendations.

Well, I had that guy from the tranny place at the Thing show look at my car and he said it was indeed a 914 tranny and engine. I asked him if I should go with the 091 and he said I could beef up my current tranny for $1500 to be as good as a bus tranny. The only downside about a 914 tranny is parts are expensive he said.

I only briefly talked to Lance over at Pantera and he told me the engine he would recommend is a 2.5L non turbo Subaru. He calls it a "pre-runner engine". He wanted about $3500 but it came with everything but a raditor. I am planning on going down to his shop one of these days.

I am trying to stay away from a body lift because I don't really like the way it looks but I know its a much better setup. I wouldn't mind cutting away at my Thing since it already has been.

The guy with the A-arm and rotary was at the Things in the Sun show and I have seen him at the Pomona swap meet. I think he said he lives somewhere near La Habra or something. Hes been working on it himself for about a couple of years and its in the final stages of being complete.

I was asking Bob about what size the trailing arm has to be to center the wheel.

I have a friend at work who is building a buggy and he is trying to convert balljoints into linkpin. I'm not sure how but if it works for him, I might do the same for my Thing.

I also plan on going to the Baja Shop and ask them for recommendations on how I can really fix up my Thing suspension wise.

The rear fenders she was selling were just the stock width and they were on her car. When she bought her Thing, the owner was trying to do a Baja style but she wants more of an original look so she took them off.

Let me know when you do sell those fenders. They don't look that bad.

Hey Eric, Im not trying to be snotty here, but just because someone told you its a 914 trans and engine doesnt necessarily make it so. The prime example of this is a thread in the off road forum(I think) where someone said "no beam front end Bugs were made after 1972." Others know that to be false, but the guy who said it was 100% certain he was right, even though he was wrong. Do the research and find your own answers. There is no satisfaction like knowing what you have because you found it yourself. If you can find your case ID # on the engine case, you can figure it out from this site as mentioned before.

I dont see how its even possible to get a 914 trans into the Thing. I saw your engine compartment open, and the engine was in the rear. In a 914 the trans is in the rear. Cant see it being practical to convert a mid engine trans to be used in a rear engine car. Shift linkage, rotation, etc. Any thing that makes this unlikely is the CVs on a 914 are smaller. What CVs are you running? Is your car converted back to the smaller T1 size CV? I guess you could have small CVs inboard and larger Thing CVs outboard, but why???? Nothing is as strong as a Bus trans except aftermarket trans that are stronger, Mendeola, Fortin, Folts, etc. Think of the weight of a 914 vs. a Bus. Which one needed a stronger trans?

I know you were asking Bob if his 2.5" longer/wider arms center the rear wheel. I was responding that they do not. The correct arm to center the rear wheel is the 5/1600 rear arm which is 1" longer, stock width.

If your friend at work comes up with strong, inexpensive conversion from BJ front end to LP front end, he will be a popular guy with lots of sales. If he makes it happen, please post the info. Why would he bother converting BJ to LP, if he is building a buggy just build it LP, no?

If you want a set of the rear fenders, say the word, orders is what will motivate me to get the ball rolling on them. They are great in that they offer additional clearance while still mounting to the stock location. They offer a 2" longer wheel opening, & a 1" taller wheel opening. They are roughly 2" wider than stock(I havent actually measured exact on this), not overly wide where they make your Thing look like its has wings and is ready for take off. They are also cut/trimmed to match a bobbed rear quarter, as well as being swept up on the leading edge.

Alright, I'll do more research into my transmission. I don't know much about trannys so I am just going by what 2 other people have told me. But I guess if what your saying is right, it wouldn't make sense to go thru so much work to put it in. I did find a number on the bottom of the tranny it is "A AN1302 7" but I haven't found what it means.

Are you bringing your Thing to the GMW show? I'll check out your fenders there. Is 2inches wider enough to cover a 31 x 10.5 tire?

I talked to AJ at Baja Shop today and I asked him what can be done to the Thing suspension wise and he said skys the limit. I guess the only thing to limit me would be my wallet. But I am going down there this Saturday to get ideas.

~Eric

ericj8 wrote:Hi,
Is anyone here attending ..... German Motor work's show
http://germanmotorworks.com/show/index.html
~Eric

I plan on going Eric.
BTW, I met you at the Pomona swapmeet last month -- don't know if you remember. I was asking questions about your front fenders and you showed me your engine.
I'll be taking my poor old mostly-stock '73 down there as I did last year. But this time I'll know NOT to park in the GMW parking lot with all the show cars. That was embarrasing last year!
So it looks like it may just be you, Matt and I from the online Thing groups in attendance.
I'm amazed that for all the Things that show up at these shows that we (or at least *I*) don't see MORE of the owners online in the discussion groups. -- Or maybe they're all members of BETTER groups than STF, Samba and Topica?