Shoptalkforums.com

67 T1 wrote:You probably don't remember me, but you were actually my first point of contact concerning Type 4s. I still hit your site about every other day. In fact, I bought my two 412s from your buy/sell page.
dennis mills

That's great to hear. Although I'm sure you didn't introduce yourself as "Panzerace" then, because I don't recall that name

jens

Sorry I'm so far behind lately. This all sounds great. The one main thing I want to make sure of....is that we finally quit getting lumped into the type 3 world. Those cars are not similar...and are cake to work on in comparison. They are also cake...in comparison...to find parts for. There was a recent post on the type forum whining about difficulty in resto, finding parts and cost.....my heart bleeds. Though I do love the type 3....and I think its the 2nd best air cooled vehicle that vw made, it was still just the transition vehicle in my opinion....to the 411/412.
Question is....would we welcome type 3 people to this club? On one hand....I says yes. They were at one point about 10 years ago....almost as much of the bastard stepchildren as type 4.....almost. At one time, I was buying type 3's in near running condition...for about $75. But they have become the second to the last frontier in VW restoration.. ....We know what the last frontier is. And...type 3's do share a few parts....D-jet, the pancake layout, the steering column and turn signals of later years, the rear brakes, the auto tranny....and the gas filler boot. But...thats about it.
This club is about differentiation from the herd, advertisemsnt of what we are....and preservation of what little still exists. Ray

I say no to Type 3's

DeathBus wrote:I say no to Type 3's

You might get quite lonely at club meetings if you do...

type4org wrote:

DeathBus wrote:I say no to Type 3's

You might get quite lonely at club meetings if you do...

Hey Jens, glad you joined up, I have been a member of your list for a long time now.

Well as Ray says, they do only share few parts and they are completely different cars, I say no, I can handle a club meeting with just me and 67T1!

Whoa fellas. Everybody take a deep breath and consider this.

1) What about guys like Tuna who don't currently own a Type 4? Exclude him and we'd be out on our butts.

2) Yes we are Type 4 specific, and are all about the promulgation of the 411-412, but are we not accepted into other VW clubs?

I'm all for open membership. Come one come all. Bring us your tired of Type 1s, bring us those who hunger for the best VWAC has to offer, come all ye down todden Type 3s.
How can we expect to show what really great cars we have if we bar the masses?
And besides, a Type 3 is the mini-me of the Type 4 anyway. It'd kind of be like having a kid brother to push around and make fun of. "Yeah, I remember when I had a 1600cc engine"

O.K. fellas. It looks like we are at an important crossroad here. Do we keep the "club" Type 4 specific, or do we include everybody. If we are strictly 411/412's, then we would be a considerably smaller, yet unique class of folks. If we include everybody, The Type 4's have a very distinct possibility of getting lost among the other types in the club, and we would be just another aircooled VW club. This is just my personal opinion, but I like the idea of a type 4 only organization, even if it is a very limited number of people. Ray has been saying it for a long time, type 4's will be popping up everywhere. It's already happening. I imagine the same thing happened when the type 3's first became popular. A small group of people were probably considering the same things we are now. Now the type 3 can stand on it's own. Soon the type 4 will be the same way. Smaller numbers of course, but still a small number of strong supporters.

Including type 3's is an easier to swallow situation. They probably have as many similarities to the type 4 as they do to the type 1. Kinda middle of the road. I personally have a T3 and a T4 so whatever we decide is fine by me.

Regardless of what we decide, I'm all for it as long as the Type 4 gets the attention it deserves. I would hate to go through all of this just to see it lost in a sea of Bugs and Busses.

My personal preference would be "Type 3 + Type 4" as the target group for the club. Everyone is invited to join, but if you show people e.g. with the club name or the club mission statement what we're all about we won't be awash in other VW lines.

I also have a strong desire to be selective, but just 411/412 will shrink the possible membership a little too much. So invite the Type 3s.

Just My 2 euro-cents

jens

Why dont we do this, form the club as a Type 4 only club and when we get going put it to the membership as a vote to let the Type 3's join.

????????????????????????????????????????????????

I would really like to have a Type 4 only club as oppossed to the

"Fastback Squareback" club.

I'm good along those lines. I think we should include anyone who drives a VW......but....the club image itself...and what we call it...should be type 4's. I have seen far too many...of what few 411/412's have made it to shows over the last 10 years....totally lost in magazine listings, because they were forced to enter and list results under teh type 3 category. Wherin a type 4 afficionado would probably not even look.
The other worry is...if you made it listed as type 3 and 4...is that 1200 type 3 owners show up to 125 411/412 owners. Not in itself a bad thing per-se......but just that very quickly, no one would even recognize it as a type 4 club. Any major efforts from the vast assembly to aquire parts and what-not....would be strictly type 3 based, due to #'s alone. But yes...include....and allow...and embrace all ACVW owners....but under the name ....of ...say.....the type 4 conspiracy?....or maybe "the master race of VW's"?...no...no...dang.....that won't work!.....or maybe......"the type of champions"?....or we da best.....OK....I'll stop. Ooooh...oooohhh.....a slogan! "the type 4....the only ACVW large enough to hump fully reclined in.....with enough heat and AC to actually do it with clothing optional".... Ray

I though the real concern first was the registry of the remaining 411/412 series world wide to preserve this knowledge. Then, I thought we were starting a club for the 411/412 car members where we were the call one call all to come and embrass the VW and the calling call is the last of the aircoolers! I think by being that club we are that coming together of all the knowledge of the aircoolers that made the 411/412 possible by VW.
When I see the"Bug Fests" I think its another "lets get together and play VW" and see how everyones is lasting! I'm probably misguided, lol!
I love my 412!! That little zoomer sedan! But I loved my type 3 fastback auto for a part of that and what it was and I loved my bugs for the fun and ease of driving and low cost mods(love that jump off the line) and I loved my buses for its abilities to get me there with a part of my house included! I just dont want the 411/412 to become a model/Picture somewhere that looks different! It was more then that!! That just underminds that which made it possible! Bill

p.s.Hey, do you think cross linking some parts of vw sites would help put together some of the areas? Like classifieds and stuff that needs to get out there to all the groups and the picture area links on the thesamba so it was more of a group linking..

Well said. We must first organize to preserve and document. I am so tired of the occasional post from someone who bought an entire car just for the engine...and basicaly throws the body away because its just too strange for them, deemed worthless....or can't be slammed and painted pink as cheaply as a bug. Ray

you forgot the wood panels.

Guess you've all seen this UK Type 3 / Type 4 club.
http://www.hallvw.clara.net/

I agree with about 90% of everything said, and for such matters as these an 80% solution is acceptable to me.

Let me try to recap for a moment:

1) 100% agreement that the sole focus of the club is the 411-412
2) National club or world-wide club: unknown (although the easy solution to this is to have continental chapters: e.i 411-412 North America; 411-412 Europe)
3) 50/50 on whether to allow Type 3 into club (but maintaining the 411-412 theme)

I'll start a new post for items 2 and 3, and we'll take a vote over the next two weeks.