Type IV Baja Thing Project

[suntour]

Bob, thank you for the description. I have a good idea what you are talking about. Honestly I have just been too lazy to just go out measure and do the math to see if I can squeeze a set of shocks in and find out what my wheel travel would be, but now I know it can be done without hacking more holes in the body. (Poor car has too many holes already.)

As for the type IV engine in that Baja/thing. Exhaust ports are under the heads and they did this fancy setup that looks like a standard type I stinger. Someone did some quality work on this.





Corey, yes I have a few more images, if there is anything you want to see just let me know.

[thingow181]

Did you take any pictures of the interior of that Thing? I am curious how they did the back seat in particular. I am working on a similar project, no coils in back and about 1/10th of the budget. Thanks!

Jordan

[Bob Ingman]

I can see clearly now. It is a T-4 engine indeed. My bad.
The way I did it i could have my shocks any length I wanted.Bob Ingman

[suntour]

Jordan,

Unfortunately I didn?t pay to much attention to the back seat area. Sorry.

But from what I can remember, the owner cut out that metal cross brace support for the long cushion that we call a back seat and welded in a set of Beard Seats. (Not sure of what brand they were) The body was lengthened a bit to make room also.

Look at the width of the post between the front and back doors. It was about 6-8 inches instead of our narrow version. This Thing was also 100% tube chassis, king and link front end, custom rear trailing arms without the torsion bars. It was held up entirely by coil over suspension and totally hydraulic steering.

Here are the pictures I have of the back seat area. I am sorry they don?t really show much about the rear seats.

Can you post some pic?s of your project? From the avatar image above your name your Thing looks like the same Thing at the show minus the flames. Just curious to see what and how people have modified their Things.

Oh and Bob, just how much body lift do you have on that car? I bet that allows a massive amount of room to use for suspension and shocks. Also what tire size are you running? 235?s? 31?s?

Oops. Really long post?

[MASSIVE TYPE IV]

Earlier someone mentioned "I don't want a tuned high HP exhaust system"

Don't be fooled, even a stock Type IV engine needs a good exhaust.

The exhaust system on the Thing pictured in the above post is available off the shelf from FAT, But it don't make the grade in our testing and it fits poorly out of the box.

Never under estimate exhaust- its the single biggest performance key to the Type IV engine. It can bolt on power, or bolt on an instant burned valve or dropped seat.

[Bob Ingman]

Kindred my Thing has a three inch home made body lift. It was a really cheap way to do it. Mostly just 1 1/2" X 3" rectangular tubing.
The tires are 235s and 215s. Nothing fancy but remember its my daily driver and only car. I`m not so much an off-roader as I am a rough-roader. Very little blacktop on this island. The Thing has survided where only pick-ups have been able to previously. No other passenger car has lasted long here. The rock roads beat them to death pretty fast. Bob Ingman

[thingow181]

Ok, I will expand on my avatar a bit.

I made a "spacer" out of a ball joint front beam that I cut down to 24" wide. I used 1.75" tubing roughly 5" long that comes down to a 6" wider warrior beam.

I then ran bent tubes up to my rollcage, with cross bracing to mount a spun alum tank. This is also plated. I then made new braces between the beam and pan similar to stock using a 20 ton press and 1.5" tubing. The coilovers are 10" Fox reservoirs with 200/400 coils. They mount to L shaped adjustable brackets I got from a friend that normally mount koni coilovers on the rear of drag cars. This allowed me to tune up vs down travel. I've got the cheapo 2.5" longer 1" wider front trailing arms, and 3" lift spindles, turned by a HD rack and pinion and heimed tie rods. I now have a Bilstein steering stabilizer slowing it down. Right now it makes 9" up travel and 5" down travel for a total of 14" All the way up, the pan is 4" from the ground.

3" body lift makes room for the tires in the post, or 31" swampers, which I would like to replace with BFG baja TA's.

3x3 chromoly arms in the back mounting dual 12" fox reservoir shocks off the cage. Still kept the torsions because I couldn't afford to coil the back yet, and it works good. Bypass shocks are in the works, but it's a good 12" of travel in the back right now.

I want to go with combo spindles and 4" longer front arms when I get the funds, but UCLA takes most of what I make. It works really well at Pismo, and I'm hoping to go to Glamis over Thanksgiving.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_ ... c_id=91797

A side shot showing basic idea.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_ ... c_id=91796

Unfinished work showing front suspension.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_ ... c_id=91795

Front truck showing tube work body lift and coilover mounts.

Sorry to make you check thesamba, I dont have any other way, think my pics are too big for here.

It's not Baja Shop, but it works well, and will be a nice car built on a college kid budget. I plan for dual buckets in the back as well, and a maroon paint job similar to the new H2 (bleh)

Hope that gives you an idea.

Jordan

[Bob Ingman]

Jordan thanks for sharing your project with us. I am envious of what you have there. A lot of nice supension goodies in a neat and well done package.
We have had a lot of talk here about the So Cal disc brakes. Did you find their kit problematic in installation? How do they work? Thanks again. Bob Ingman

[suntour]

Jordan that is a very nice set up. I always tossed around the idea of making an adaptor for a king and link to fit in a ball joint clip. Once again between you and Bob all my quandaries have been answered and I didn?t have to get off my lazy rear end to measure anything to see if it would fit. Cool! Thanks!

Now just out of curiosity with the front beam pushed forward 5" and the front arms 2.5" longer do you think you would have any clearance problems if you put stock fenders back on? Also wondering how daily drivable would your Thing do on surface streets with that suspension set up?

The reason I asked Bob about his tire size is that I am trying to figure out the largest I can squeeze under my car without extensive modifications. When my stock suspension was cut and turned up front and clocked in the back I had a set of 235 ? 15?s in the back but any good bump would smack the tires into the fenders and bent both of them plus I could barely fit them up front. If the wheels weren?t straight and I hit a bump same thing would happen. It was just too tight without a body lift. So I am trying to see what other people are running and how everything looks and fits before I make a final decision on what to do with my Thing.

Corey, it has been a few days now since you finished the exhaust setup what do you think now you have had some time to get accustomed to it? Have you thought about just cutting and turning down the pipe after the muffler to stop water collecting in there? I look forward to seeing your progress on that project.

[thingow181]

Thanks for the compliments guys. It's been a lot of work to get it where it is today.

Brakes: I haven't driven it with the brakes yet. I picked them up from a guy who didn't end up using them, it was a good deal and I wanted them. It's a very complete kit, but I found myself having to swap sides with the brackets and modify them slightly to work with my spindles. I don't know if it would have worked any easier with stock K&L spindles.

There is no hope of stock fenders on the car. So-cal fenders would not work either. There are some huge fenders on thesamba from time to time, but I don't like the look. I plan on cutting up my stockers eventually to give me some kind of lights, as well as building a light bar above the cage similar to the stuff you see running baja.

I think it drives better than when I had a ball-joint beam maxed out up front. The longer wheelbase and width makes a huge difference. Steering required some getting used to, the rack I got is about one turn lock to lock.

I used to have 235s in the back and 205s up front and had the same problems. I added a body lift and fit 215x85 (30") swampers up front and 31x9.5 swampers in back with no clearance problems. I liked the look, but decided to go a different way with it, being closer to sand than mud.

The only problem I can describe with more suspension is that you will need more power. With my 1776 I couldn't out drive the stockish suspension. Now I am out of go, which is why the 2161 is going together, with a close ratio trans. Well, a trans when I can afford it.

Feel free to ask questions, I have had plenty in my time.

Jordan

[MNAirHead]

Kindred...

I have the answer to the biggest tire without clicking up the rear for street use.

Have you jacked up the rear on your car? If you're running stock height on streets, I can go through the effort of locating the set of tires I was running.

T.

[suntour]

MNAirHead,

Thank you for the tire size suggestion, right now I am running 215/65 R15?s on all four wheel with stock suspension height and I am very happy with that for right now. What I was wondering is what other people are running and how they have modified their suspension or body to accommodate larger tires. I would really like to hear what combinations others are running or have run in the past. I am interested in their evaluation of how well their particular setup functions and what the pros and cons are in relation to the amount of modification required.

In the past I have had my suspension cut and turned along with re-indexed torsion bars but I personally didn?t like the road driving characteristics of my setup. I am trying to decide on what the best setup is for my Thing, driving style and needs before I start my body off restoration in the beginning of 2005. (My wife made me promise to finish the house and landscape remodel first; I figure I should be done in December) Since I have never driven or ridden in a VW with a highly modified suspension or engine I have to experience this vicariously through those who have and hope to make my final decisions on their experience.

When I saw Corey?s original post about his Baja Thing project along with this great Thing I saw at the Off-road expo it inspired me to start asking about others suspensions and tire setup?s. Now that I have babbled on, and on and on?.

What is everyone else running and how is it working for you?

Oh and Jordan, I will post a picture as soon as I can find it, that might give you some ideas on fenders. It?s a tube and sheet metal setup that Rock Crawlers are running on TJ?s and YJ?s. It might give you some ideas.

Sorry about prattling on.

[MNAirHead]

We run 33s on a 2x2 trailing arm baja... I'll dig up the size of the biggest tires that can fit under Thing fenders....

I found a setup this summer that's guaranteed to be the max.

T.

[Bob Ingman]

Guys keep in mind that power and gearing preceed large diameter tires.
Big tires look so good but you`ve got to have the gearing and power(mostly gearing) to turn them.
Guess thats why you see so many bus transaxles used off-road. The are tough, cheap and low geared. Can`t beat that combo. Bob Ingman

[suntour]

Bob I agree with you 100%. With proper gearing you can (theoretically) get a stock 1600 to push 44? mudders around. (Minus the problems with inertia, weight and just getting them to stop turning once you get them going. I guess that falls under the inertia thing? shock problems, clearance, etc?.. anyway)

I am personally starting my project by determining tire size first since that affects everything from the type of suspension and braking to gear ratios, and RPM?s for cruising the freeway at 80, etc. In fact it is kind of mind boggling how much tires affect everything.

So here I am at square one figuring out what tire size in relation to how much work, money and modifications.