Wheel Bearings

Bowman74 · Post by **Bowman74** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:26 am

I see as usual I forgot to log in before posting.

Thanks,

Kevin

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:47 pm

Death bus...if you can get the rears for that cheap...get em! They fit very little else save for some defunct international stuff (unless something else started using them recently). They are maufactured sparingly....and they are large bearings. Timkin is generally good quality. All of this particular bearing used to be made in their factory in France. That is not so much the case anymore and quality has suffered. Generally, un-rusted or unburned FAG and SKF from the rears of 411/412's in the junkyard...that are 30 years old are far superior in smoothness to the Timkin and CR brand rear bearings. My last set of Timkins was a bargain at about $26 ea for the bearing and $11 for the races. Ray

Post by **Marc** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:36 pm

And then there's this problem:
http://www.ebearing.com/news2001/news151.htm
That's right, folks - if it came from India there's nearly a 50-50 chance it's counterfeit crap.

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:43 pm

Marc wrote:And then there's this problem:
http://www.ebearing.com/news2001/news151.htm
That's right, folks - if it came from India there's nearly a 50-50 chance it's counterfeit crap.

But how much of that stuff makes it here?

Post by **Marc** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:49 pm

All of the SKF bearings on the shelf at my F.L.A.P.S. say "Made in India".
Who's to say if their supplier's buyer looked at anything but price when he imported them?

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:57 pm

Marc wrote:All of the SKF bearings on the shelf at my F.L.A.P.S. say "Made in India".
Who's to say if their supplier's buyer looked at anything but price when he imported them?

Thats scary!! When I go and check these Tmkien out I will check if they are made in India!

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:36 pm

Thank you Marc. Over the last 3 years...I have made several long posts concerning the bearing "scandle". No one bats an eye. This has actually been going on since not long after the nuts and bolts scandle ended. It is a HUGE HUGE problem. Just go strike up a conversation with your favorite large industrial bearing dealer.
There are a lot of problems out there right now. There were a lot of aquisitions and mergers in the mid to late 90's among bearing dealers...mostly good...but not all. Fafnir and ...what...federal mogul? Can't remember. But the gist is this. Most of the bearings you buy at large flaps chains are very poor. Lets be realistic....even the bearings made in china have good machine tolerances....its all CNC now. But...they have very poor roller and ball hardening, and very crappy cage material. The SKF from India...I do not touch. The SKF from Spain...quite decent. Pretty much in order....its German, Japanese and an even tie for the american and mexican offerings. The Brazilian stuff has problems too. Only the needle bearing market with Fafnir and a few others like NTN from Japan seems to be stable.

How do they get away with it? Sometimes they don't. For instance on the rotors of the type 3 and 4...you have a heavier than a bug car, with unventilated rotors....and a bit of a wide adjusting tolerance on pre-load. These bearings get a bit hotter than the huge double ball bearings prevalent in most front drive cars. Most new cars also have ventilated rotors. They are better designs....and are heavily over designed. They don't make as much heat. Brands to stay far away from...are TAM and BOC from China. These are popular with Pep boys and auto zone. Even with Mystik JT-6 grease...with 500+ F drop point, new rotors and all new suspension parts...and adjusting with a dial indicator...the cages turned to powder in 3 weeks! Also, there is less time and energy in the Chinese bearings, spent on things like radiusing the edges of the taper rollers...like FAG is known for. This means that hard cornering and side loading...causes a grooving in the race..and sometimes chipping of the roller edge.

Taiwan bearings....have seen few. They are about the quality of mexican bearings. Decent.
Also, the problems I have found on the few India bearings I have bought...and discarded...were that from bearing to bearing...inner ID was as much as .002" off

. Be very careful. Go to reputable bearing dealers ....not FLAPS....for critical things like tranny bearings. If you get large well made old bearings that are clean and smooth....like 25 year old German bearings, save them in a bucket of Automatic tranny fluid after cleaning. They will last forever in that fluid. You will probably never see them nade that well again. Makes me wonder...as in the nuts and bolts scandle....how many deaths this may have caused. Its been going on since about 1995. Ray

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:03 pm

all I can say is WOW. So basically what everyone is saying is, keep your old bearings and clean them up if you can, because it is hard as hell to find GOOD new ones?

In my line of work (I am a motion picture projector and sound technician for a large theater chain) I often deal with enclosed bearings of different types. SKF TimKien etc., and never had any real problems with either. These of coarse are not taking the constant stress from cornering as automotive wheel bearings will. These bearings are on shafts that just spin and have relativly no "side to side" stress. All the bearings have fit their bosses quite well and I have several that have been running 5 to 7 years. Wonder if my supplier was getting old stock bearings. Next time I use one I will make sure to check their origins.

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:11 pm

Marc wrote:And then there's this problem:
http://www.ebearing.com/news2001/news151.htm
That's right, folks - if it came from India there's nearly a 50-50 chance it's counterfeit crap.

That blows my mind!

wallacehartley · Post by **wallacehartley** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:27 am

I find this very interesting - the SKF bearings I got were clearly marked made in Germany!!

SKF over here have an excellent reputation - but I will keep an eye out for Indian stuff - thanks for the heads up!

The car is better - I had been hearing whisperings about wheel bearings for a week or so, then one day a real wobbly-jelly shimmy under braking! Next day I was reversing and as I braked, I felt a discernible shift in things somewhere around the left front. The bearings weren't absolutely totalled, but the retaining nut and capscrew were loose and were on the point of parting company with the stub axle on the left (passenger)side.
The right was OK-ish but just dry and caked with ancient grease and crap, as was the left .

So - both inner and outer replaced, new seals, new grease -should be good for awhile.

I have come to the conclusion that our bad roads exact a toll on the cars that you are possibly unfamiliar with in US and Europe.
Front manual transmission mounting failures??

MGVWfan · Post by **MGVWfan** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:07 am

Wallace, I assure you, bad roads are not unique to South Africa

As an example, when I go back to North Louisiana, I can tell the instant I drive over the border, the road surface gets rougher and noisier. I'll bet Harris County, Texas has as many potholes per mile of road as Joberg!

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:24 am

MGVWfan wrote:Wallace, I assure you, bad roads are not unique to South Africa
As an example, when I go back to North Louisiana, I can tell the instant I drive over the border, the road surface gets rougher and noisier. I'll bet Harris County, Texas has as many potholes per mile of road as Joberg!

Take a ride on Alabama back roads, YIKES. Our Interstate hiways are great but our back roads are HORRIBLE!

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:23 am

Any of you guys been to Detroit? The roads there eat suspension parts for breakfast and sh*t wheels/tires. If SA is anything like that, well, I feel for ya!

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:27 pm

Ok....Uber wins it! I have been to "Destroit". The roads absolutely suuuuuuck. What was that heinous excuse for a shell holed, oxcart track...that serves as the interstate through town to the airport? Keeee-rist! That sucked. But yes...every state has truely ugly roads in some places.
Its not that getting good bearings is hard at all. Its just that its just as easy to get crappy ones. Things like basic front wheel bearings...its easy to find good ones. Just wacth what you buy. Those are what I call small bearings. The huge ball bearings that are in trannys, or the large differential side and pinion bearings....choose carefully. Ray

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:20 pm

raygreenwood wrote:Ok....Uber wins it! I have been to "Destroit". The roads absolutely suuuuuuck. What was that heinous excuse for a shell holed, oxcart track...that serves as the interstate through town to the airport? Keeee-rist! That sucked. But yes...every state has truely ugly roads in some places.
Its not that getting good bearings is hard at all. Its just that its just as easy to get crappy ones. Things like basic front wheel bearings...its easy to find good ones. Just wacth what you buy. Those are what I call small bearings. The huge ball bearings that are in trannys, or the large differential side and pinion bearings....choose carefully. Ray

Ah yes, I-94, quite a treat!