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mlrailguy wrote:The problem with lap welding is it gives moisture a place to collect

How much moisture do you think this thing sees?

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:...with inside doublers also which is why I would think the butt weld with the inside or outside doubler might be stronger and not as apt to get the moisture problem as easily.

So aren't the doublers going to be lap welds?

How strong does this thing need to be really? This is not a fiberglass buggy with a single loop roll bar right? Even as hammered as this car has been over the years the full cage as poorly designed as it was, has kept the doors functioning and latching flawlessly for 20 years.

Right now I am feeling like the lift will become the outer chassis tubes. Maybe two front to rear tubes that run from beam to torsion as I did in my new car. Tie the lift to the torsion and then tie the cage to the torsion in a couple spots and BAM the tunnel is along from the ride as it is in the new car.

I don't know...Haven't cut anything yet.

Heres a different take on the subject. . Carefully cut the existing torsion tube from the frame horns. Use the style torsion adjuster that goes over the tubes and install. Make new tubes that slide into torsion adjuster and weld everything up. Add after market mid travel end caps so is not necessary to notch spring plates.
If you decide to use rear coilovers skip the torsion adjuster and just slide in a new tube.
Could also make the rear torsion 2 inches wider per side use long torsion bars and mid length spring plates. Should not have to cut into frame horns to install irs brackets with 2 inch wider per side torsion tube. So if you used the +1 arms they would now be 1 inch longer and two inches wider.
Another option would be to cut frame horns off, carefully cut torsion tube out and install new tube and make or use aftermarket frame horns. Tie new torsion tube into cage.

"How much moisture do you think this thing sees? " ... and just how hard are you going to drive this thing and I am not talking about sweat either?

"How strong does this thing need to be really? This is not a fiberglass buggy with a single loop roll bar righ t? Even as hammered as this car has been over the years the full cage as poorly designed as it was, has kept the doors functioning and latching flawlessly for 20 years." Redundant of the last answer.

Doing a overlap fit still allows welding on one surface. Spot/plug welding an inside the tunnel doubler on a lap joint is going to be very difficult on a lap joint.

Just giving you some thoughts. Not trying to tell you what to do other than to give information that I was given and found to be practical.

I'm not sure just how you are going to do the tubes other than they are going to be full length. Will they go along the outer pan lines?

Lee

Lee, don't take my responses personal, I am asking for thoughts and that is what you guys are giving and I appreciate it. Its always hard to wrap my head around what other are saying or where they are coming from. I do think how to cut a pan for a buggy is relevant but maybe not exactly the same scenario as I have going here.


Richard, We have decided to use the 3x3's Richard and we will go coilovers. Both floor pans are wasted on either pan we have, so I think a new foundation of some well placed tubes will be a good base for a newly designed cage. And then we will skin the bottom with some 18ga steel that I already have on hand from my original plan of doing something similar with my car. We have no need for stock configured floor pans as the seats and pedals no longer use stock placements.

I didn't! Just making sure you didn't. I've done a lot of talking to people over thecyears about some of this stuff and seen a bit of the aw s....s! too.

Lee

Dad broke the tunnel in his first sand rail. Home built tube chassis on a vw pan. brought it home and welded plates across the "kink" after straightening. took it back to the dunes and broke it again at each end of the plates. brought it home and removed the tunnel and pan replaced with tubes and expanded steel floor and ran it for years that way.

Yeah, the tunnels on the stock VW pans have been known to sway-back between the shifter area and the front cross piece.

Is your father's rail the red tube cage sans the tubing in front shown in the photo?

If going coilover then i would cut the frame horns off and then remove the torsion tube from the remaining structure install new torsion tube and fab new frame horns. Tie everything into cage. Advantage of this is you have a nice new thick torsion tube, not a 40 year old stock tube

Digging this one up because well because.....
JT came to me last week and said it's been 3 years and I dont have the coin to do what I want so the plan is find a solid SA pan and put the car back together as it was.....and play with it this summer.

I Said OK then let's get to work. Picked up a very solid 67 pan yesterday and we will swap the frame head with his old pan since it really is the only thing left on that pan salvageable..

Goal will be to put the car back together as it was for the least amount of dollars spent. Hoping for less the 1k out of pocket right now.

Pan $600 ($400 after trade of 002 core bus box that has been on my shelf for 17+ years LOL)

He has .most everything in boxes to rewire the car. Bought a few years ago. Everything else was in running driving order when the torsion housing and rest of the pan gave up.

We'll see?

Are you going to go with a body lift? It will give a lot of support to the pan itself doubling up on the load transferring work of the body itself. I think we talked about this years ago.

The other thing I have tried is to put a secondary tube in the body mount tunnel also. I used a 1" square tube and it works but changing that to a 1 X 2 is a much better way of doubling up on things. If done it can be used as a skid plate also but requires some detail work assuming you want the skid plate w/o fasteners sticking down.

Adding the top and bottom tubes from the beam to the front fire wall then connect to the A-pillar and into the cage itself is going to make things a lot stronger and help stop the tendency to have the tunnel deform from the Napoléon's hat to the shifter hole.

Lee

Body lift would help out. Good to see this Brute being put back together.

Sweet! I always wondered what happened to this Baja. Glad to see you guys still "playing" with it!

turbobaja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:17 pm Sweet! I always wondered what happened to this Baja. Glad to see you guys still "playing" with it!

We broke it pretty bad back in 2014-15 Christmas NYE Pretty much tore the torsion housing out of it. started collecting parts to convert to IRS and longer arms ect. Needs a few major parts to complete that including shocks. So back together as it was for now.

Motor has been sitting in my garage since then though. So no weather abuse there.

JT went to pull the torsion spring & plate and the rest of the housing fell off LOL

It was past time to give up the ghost.