2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build

[split1950]

I've got a big torsten pieper pump I can't imagine it's that.
But at this point I just don't know.
I'm tempted to strip it and buy a bore guage and carefully measure everything.
Maybe I should have done that before......
I bought the engine as a non runner I remember the cam was a terrible mess I'm suspicious if the journals are really ok I'm told you can oversive or line bore that so it'd be a disaster.

[Chip Birks]

So I resealed the oil pump with Permatex / freezer and used a borrowed "proper" dry sump tank and 20W/50 oil.

Cold / Warm / Hot ish (I can't touch the tank)
1000rpm 42psi 18psi 8psi
2000rpm 61psi 35psi 15psi
3000rpm 61psi 47psi 25psi

It all seems low to me.
I have plenty of oil in the tank, I'd say the scavenge took a lot of the 3.5 litres out of the case.
The frustration is I have got it running quite decent on the Haltech with not a lot of effort, so this is a huge step backwards.
bearing clearance issue as it heats up?

Have you confirmed this oil pressure issue with a mechanical gauge? Or just the digital one?

[split1950]

Yes I have but not since I changed the oil and tank etc.
I'll swap the sensor out for a guauge tomorrow night.
I'm measuring it on the oil cooler bypass but it shouldn't make a difference to the switch location.

[richie,uk]

Electrical or mechanical gauge? reading at dash or at engine?

[split1950]

Both done at engine.
Anyway......I've found the issue.....
Brand new DPR crank journals measure 0.25 to 0.29 under stock VW upper limit.
Was given STD bearings.
Having never do e an engine before I had no idea I needed to measure brand new parts that were supposed to be checked by the machinist before 5 dowel and balancing.
I suppose you live and learn......
Now I have to get another new 78mm crank

[richie,uk]

Both done at engine.
Anyway......I've found the issue.....
Brand new DPR crank journals measure 0.25 to 0.29 under stock VW upper limit.
Was given STD bearings.
Having never do e an engine before I had no idea I needed to measure brand new parts that were supposed to be checked by the machinist before 5 dowel and balancing.
I suppose you live and learn......
Now I have to get another new 78mm crank

Is that on mains or rods? or both? quite often they are ground under on mains to get crank straight after welding, but rods are usually std, when I order from DPR i specify all to be std, it costs a little extra but is worth it

[Wally]

Did you ever measure rod journal hardness on a DPR crank Richie?
I did that on a Type 4 DPR and was very low, much too low tbh. Long time ago and don’t remember Numbers, just the conclusion..

[rubenski]

My engine builder´s theory is, even straight out of the box, measure....

Never trust any company, even how respected they are

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A528B met Tapatalk

[split1950]

Both done at engine.
Anyway......I've found the issue.....
Brand new DPR crank journals measure 0.25 to 0.29 under stock VW upper limit.
Was given STD bearings.
Having never do e an engine before I had no idea I needed to measure brand new parts that were supposed to be checked by the machinist before 5 dowel and balancing.
I suppose you live and learn......
Now I have to get another new 78mm crank

Is that on mains or rods? or both? quite often they are ground under on mains to get crank straight after welding, but rods are usually std, when I order from DPR i specify all to be std, it costs a little extra but is worth it

On the mains, the rods feel fine, I am yet to measure them as the ARP2000 bolts will be trashed.
I bought the crank expecting new / STD, I paid top dollar from a UK supplier as a package with bearings to try and avoid such situations as I am a novice.
I have learned, trust nothing.

[richie,uk]

On the mains, the rods feel fine, I am yet to measure them as the ARP2000 bolts will be trashed.
I bought the crank expecting new / STD, I paid top dollar from a UK supplier as a package with bearings to try and avoid such situations as I am a novice.
I have learned, trust nothing.

Yep that is the reality of it unfortunately got to check every single part!!!

Why will the bolts be trashed? I have re used them plenty of times in re-builds/freshen ups

[richie,uk]

Did you ever measure rod journal hardness on a DPR crank Richie?
I did that on a Type 4 DPR and was very low, much too low tbh. Long time ago and don’t remember Numbers, just the conclusion..

No i haven't, never had one show excessive wear either though


cheers Richie

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Did you ever measure rod journal hardness on a DPR crank Richie?
I did that on a Type 4 DPR and was very low, much too low tbh. Long time ago and don’t remember Numbers, just the conclusion..

No i haven't, never had one show excessive wear either though


cheers Richie

Checking the dia. and gap distances between the bearings and crank is very important. Also checking the rod bolts for wear or stretching is very important too.

Bolts that have either been overtightened or been used too long/hard can cause weakness in the fastener. The nuts also can be overused and not fit tight. Also, make sure that the rod bolts are of the proper design as that is also very important.

Lee

[richie,uk]

Checking the dia. and gap distances between the bearings and crank is very important. Also checking the rod bolts for wear or stretching is very important too.

Bolts that have either been overtightened or been used too long/hard can cause weakness in the fastener. The nuts also can be overused and not fit tight. Also, make sure that the rod bolts are of the proper design as that is also very important.

Lee

Walter was asking about journal hardness not sizing, and as far as i could tell these bolts have been used once and only done cam burn so unless engine was assembled several times then bolts should still be good, so i was asking if engine builder had ay particular reason to say they were trashed

[split1950]

OK so I assumed once the ARP2000 rod bolts were stretched they are "done" and can't be reused.
I did a several steps torque up as advised as I don't have a stretch gauge:
Rods (ARP bolts): 29Ft/lb (torque up in 5Ft/lb steps to 29Ft/lb 3 times to get stretch, using special ARP grease on whole bolt inc under head. Bolts should be replaced after that as over stretch weakens them)

To be honest at this point for the cost of 8 bolts I'd rather be safe than sorry, I've never done this before, I won't be glad I saved £50 when it lets go.
Yes I have only run cam burn then getting EFI running. I have no drive shafts so need to go Flintsones styleee.

Ritchie I had paid for a STD DPR crank, clearly not what was supplied.
I have learned a lesson, thankfully apart from my time, heartache and a few JE piston spiro clips, bearing shells and gaskets nothing was lost.
Could have been much worse.
I'm happy to have found what is likely to be the cause, just waiting to see if -0.25 mains are the answer (I don't have a micrometer big enough I had to use a Vernier to measure the journals)

[split1950]

Also, whilst I'm "in there" is my turbo oil drain to Tuna can OK?
I used AN10 PTFE. It goes downhill to the Tuna can.
But, isn't the Tuna can the lowest point of the oil pan even despite dry sump it won't be empty?
Would a 3/8 NPT banjo to AN10 survive on the centre housing (heat?)? That way I could tap into the side of the sump.

I'd like to hear from people using the Tuna can rather than an opinion if possible