QSC "2.4L" Waterboxer pistons

tencentlife · Post by **tencentlife** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:01 am

Hmm, that's an interesting point, that GW may have Wisecos they won't use that we might buy. Frankly, I don't see why they had to lower CR on the 2.2 pistons. 9:1 isn't at all radical, and will run fine on mid-grade at sea level. I run mine at 5-7k feet ASL most of the time, and nary a knock. We took a recent trip to lower areas, 2-3k feet, and it still didn't knock.

I can see them wanting to bring the CR down on their other motors, but they ought to have left the 2.2 alone.

I'll have a set of the QSC 96's in my hands soon. They are in transit from Serranos as we speak. I'll put up the vital specs here once I get them.

Found a guy who has lots of old cam gears on the Samba classifieds. He's sending me a 3-rivet flat gear, machined for bolts, with the +2 pitch I need.

The rest is on its way, too: EMPI 4140 5.5" I-beams, the 2254 cam, hydro lifters, new ratios, elephant-foot adjusters, CB Maxi Pump, all the other bearings, seals, etc. Gotta get my case back from the machinist, but give him the rods, and settle on whether to enlarge the intake valves to 41mm. So I still won't get building for a couple more weeks.

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:03 am

Yeah, I dont understand either.. maybe for the bigger motors, but like you say, the 2.2 should be ok..

Any ideas what head seals to use onnthe jugs? are there any bigger ones available or just stock? or use some aircooled coppers?

Post by **Piledriver** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:27 am

GoWesty still sells their various nice 9:1 Wisecos P&L sets, and with the exchange rate...I'd go with those if I were you, and if you are not strapped for cash.

I have decided to just put my setup back together as I'm in a time crunch, will send some stock heads off to Adrian at HFM for rework and big valves etc, as they are stock heads, they have no step, will just have the water jacket sealing surface cut to compensate for lack of step, should get the deck ~where it belongs with no head gasket, eventually.

I want the AMCs for the next one anyway

I should have my motor back together in a couple of weeks, I'll let you know how the 86/1600DP cam with 1.4:1 rockers works out... Installed straight up, the IC event is only a few degrees later than the stock MV cam, so the injection hopefully won't know the difference...

tencentlife · Post by **tencentlife** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:46 pm

Any ideas what head seals to use on the jugs? are there any bigger ones available or just stock? or use some aircooled coppers?

GW sends out some copper ones cut out to fit the 96mm jugs. The OD is the same, but ID has to be reduced the 2mm. Otherwise, you could probably make your own from stock seal rings or some aftermarket coppers.

Post by **Piledriver** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:35 pm

The AMC heads don't use head gaskets (step cut), and if you were to run the stock heads on the AA/QSC jugs, the deck works out ~OK.

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Thu May 24, 2007 2:04 am

Can any of you decyfer this from QSC???
Maybe its lost in the translation... American to english....!!!

"The 2.2L(96mm) water-cooled kits for Type 1 was reported by our customers that it could hold up the work load equal to that of 2.4L but in fact it's just the same kit(the dome height of piston is raised, the pin height is not changed) "

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Thu May 24, 2007 2:04 am

Can any of you decyfer this from QSC???
Maybe its lost in the translation... American to english....!!!

"The 2.2L(96mm) water-cooled kits for Type 1 was reported by our customers that it could hold up the work load equal to that of 2.4L but in fact it's just the same kit(the dome height of piston is raised, the pin height is not changed) "

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Thu May 24, 2007 2:06 am

Can any of you decyfer this from QSC???
Maybe its lost in the translation... American to english....!!!

"The 2.2L(96mm) water-cooled kits for Type 1 was reported by our customers that it could hold up the work load equal to that of 2.4L but in fact it's just the same kit(the dome height of piston is raised, the pin height is not changed) "

Post by **Piledriver** » Thu May 24, 2007 3:45 am

I emailed and reminded them that 96x76 is not 2.4L... after asking what the pin height was and pointing out that it doesn't work with an 82+mm crank out of the box...

My guess is something lost in Chinese<>english translation, I don't think there are any native English speakers in the QSC building.

They do spell well, so it could just be Outlooks spell check "helping them"

Doesn't change the compression height. Still 35.75mm.

It will work out OK w/stock heads and no gaskets (mill water seal surface to match removed gasket), or if you cut the step out of the AMCs and also mill the water seal surface to match. (and .020" more per Type5Joe, .5mm less crush on the rubber provides a better seal in either case...)

Cam is here, I think I have all the parts, mocking up this weekend, taking next week off to work on it and other projects.

Post by **Piledriver** » Thu May 24, 2007 3:58 am

tencentlife wrote:Yeah, I would use those, but they only come in 5.4".

When you have the pin resized to 24mm, they could become 5.5s (or 5.3s, or whatever exact length you need in that range) for free...

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Thu May 24, 2007 4:00 am

Been having trouble posting.. sorry for the 3 posts...

Cheers
that would explain it..
So they dont have enough "squish" then?
Why not take a bit off the top of the barrels? got to be easier and more reliable.. unless there is enough meat in the heads.. I have a set of AMG heads and the combustion area looks pretty much the same as VW heads... and they had gaskets on too..

I think I might get a set in anycase, much easier to work out stuff in your hand.. Just concerned with the quality.. I need a reliable engine and if all goes well want to be able to offer reliable engines.. maybe I should get the GW ones... or maybe the GW pistons and the use the QSC barrels!!!

tencentlife · Post by **tencentlife** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:31 am

I'd be more apt to use the QSC pistons and bored stock barrels (what GW does). You should be able to get your OEM barrels bored locally, my machinist said it would be no problem.

I now have a set of QSC's in my hands, but I won't be back at my shop to mike and cc them until Tuesday. I'll post the real specs as soon as I collect them.

The quality of the pistons look fine, at a glance. It's the cylinders whose strength and dimensional stability I wonder about. They're clearly turned on sandcast blanks. I'll weigh them against stock (adjusting for the bore dfference) to see if the material they're made of is as dense as OEM.

I also let Serrano's know that calling them a 2.4 set was erroneous. Steve said he'd correct the ad. It was plain that they had just reused QSC's copy.

When you have the pin resized to 24mm, they could become 5.5s (or 5.3s, or whatever exact length you need in that range) for free...

For free? You might be dreaming. My guy estimated the resize and bush job at $100 the set. I know you mean that they could be offset for the same cost, but I'm not sure of that. I didn't ask about offsetting the pins since I have the rod length I need, but I would think he'd need more money, the setup being different. I dunno, though, I didn't ask. Maybe your guy does this more often, but it was not a routine job to my guy.

Post by **Piledriver** » Thu May 24, 2007 11:12 am

tencentlife wrote:
When you have the pin resized to 24mm, they could become 5.5s (or 5.3s, or whatever exact length you need in that range) for free...
For free? You might be dreaming. My guy estimated the resize and bush job at $100 the set. I know you mean that they could be offset for the same cost, but I'm not sure of that. I didn't ask about offsetting the pins since I have the rod length I need, but I would think he'd need more money, the setup being different. I dunno, though, I didn't ask. Maybe your guy does this more often, but it was not a routine job to my guy.

Yes, "free" in the sense that the actual machining setup is the same.

If you are already having them resized, offsetting them should cost no more. Same tooling/setup.
A couple of the pins were offset to the side slightly on mine (cosmetic) they are now all perfectly centered... Getting the right bushings was harder for the machinist to figure out, as it required thought.

Mine cost $136, $40+ of which was bushings and UPS charges for same...

GW has some of those pistons w/22mm pins too...

If you shortened the jugs, you still need to have the water jacket seal on the heads milled back to match...

tencentlife · Post by **tencentlife** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:16 pm

No shortening of jugs. Why'd you think that?

Post by **Piledriver** » Thu May 24, 2007 11:56 pm

Sorry, 51Man mentioned it...