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Cool info guys! I'll ask around about Fokko Haans.
Time permitting I'll maybe try to scan a pic from the book Lars mentions of the '69 entry in Monte Carlo as I have the book as well

Fokko Haanstra was in the past member of the dutch 412 club. It was a pitty that it was for a short time.
In the first clubmagazine in 2009 (40 years later) the dutch clubmagazine will bring a special VW 411 on the Monte Carlo Rally 1969 with never shown pictures and facts.

Let me surprise you.

That would be so cool Ton!

Thanks in advance!

First of all, we still have to do the clubmagazine in October and December.
And as you know, the last number of this year we have the second women-special.

Ton

I hope Fokko finds the shoptalkforums, to me it seems to be the most active 411/412 area on the net and he obviously has a lot of interesting information to share.

I’d really love to hear more about the ’69 Monte Carlo Rally 411!! Does this car still exist somewhere?

I have another question relating to the history of the Type 4. Does anyone know the story behind the 51 specially made 412 Variants built in March 1975, almost a year after the 412 originally went out of production? I first read about this in Simon Glen’s book ‘Volkswagens of the World’ and then again in Judith Rastall’s website.

No the Monte Carlo-rallycar don't exist anymore.

However the man who droves the 411 still lives. He is in Holland a famous person. The man was also Formula 1 driver and Le Mans. His fast record of 1971 still acsist and can't be beaten. Now someone and himself are starting to make a biografy about his (racing-)life.
A lot of racingdrivers from the past can't tell you about it, because of the deadly accedences.

Once I'll had the oppurtunity to speak with him on the phone. He was very pleased that from a totally different corner someone talking with him.
Mostly people are talking with him about Formula 1 and Racing-Porsches.

I'll hope that they don't forget the Monte Carlo Rally 1969.

I'll really don't know about the 51 412's in 1975. But i'ts very interesting.
I'll know about the 30 VW 411 L Variant (the first modelyear, but never went in production!!)
I'm driving now for 25 years Type 4, make our clubmagazine and you can be sure that I'm going to find out of the '75 412's.
However it's no secret that Volkswagen has more produced VW's after the stopped with the production. For example specially for Denmark they produced the 1303 and also Golf 1 longer!!

Ton

Hey Ton,

I referred back to Judith’s website to get the name of the guy that drove the 411 in the 1969 Monte Carlo Rally, is this the same man? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gijs_van_Lennep
I am glad he has a little time to reminisce about his racing experience in the 411 and look forward to hearing his story!

I'll know about the 30 VW 411 L Variant (the first modelyear, but never went in production!!)

What is the story here? Were these pre-production prototypes just for development purposes?



Ok, don’t laugh! I had another visit to the VW Automuseum website yesterday. They do not have an english version of the website, but you can translate it using Google’s language tools. Here is their section on the VW prototypes, most of which are linked to the Type 4

http://66.102.9.104/translate_c?hl=en&s ... t4qH-SzLEA

The car pictured above is an early development of the 411. The body appears to be a simplified version of the body used on the last series of EA53 prototypes and was designed by Ghia, you can see pictures of the Ghia EA53 in Hans-Rudiger Etzold’s ‘The Beetle - Chronicles of the People’s Car - Volume 2’

The following is quoted (via Google!) from the VW Automuseum website:

Volkswagen EA 142-2-53 (1962) 

Built: 1962 

Engine: boxer four-cylinder, air cooled 

Displacement: 1100 cc 

Performance: 30 hp at 4000 rpm 

Maximum speed: 80 km / h 



In the search for a suitable beetle heirs changed the Wolfsburg developers often less proven technology beetles, but rather the design of formally in the 30s designed rear-engine sedan. Even EA 142-2, successor to the Porsche developed EA 53, has one of the early 60s modern and independent appearance in the other producers since the late 40s years practised pontoon form. 



Similarities, the two prototypes EA 53 and EA 142-2 in motorization: EA 142-2 over namely those 1100s boxer, which ultimately gestoppten EA 53 in the final phase of its development to help improve driving performance. 



Has not been easy, however, the pendulum rear axle, the EA problematic driving his 53 properties owed. EA 142-2 has an elaborate driving on a stool aggregate double joint rear axle with Längslenkern and torsion bar suspension. 



The prototype issued internally after his chassis designer "judge" cars, is the second hand 142, therefore, the additional designation "-2". The result is he in October 1962. 



The original pearl-painted Volkswagen prototype was tested during his time over 200,000 kilometers behind and also served as a vehicle for measuring the Verwindungssteifigkeit the body. 



His name plate has him already as a "type 41": He is therefore at the beginning of independent series type 4 (411, 412) and is therefore exempted from the role of a beetle herausgewachsen successor.

Unfortunately I didn’t see EA142-2-53 during my visit to the VW Automuseum last year I would be interested to know if this had the OHC Type 4 engine that Roland Kunz wrote about.

Does anyone know the relationship between EA142 and EA158? Judith Rastall and Fokko Haanstra say that originally EA142 (which led directly to the 411) was originally meant to be a replacement for the Type 3; but then EA158 comes along (again described by Judith, Fokko, Etzold and VW as a Type 3 replacement) sharing almost exactly the same body as the 411 and a version of the Type 4 engine!! Was EA158 just going to be a cut price, lower powered Type 4?

It seems as though development of EA158 continued into 1969, Etzold even claims the tooling was made up and the first preliminary run was produced!

Yes, its the same man Neil.
I'll hope very much that they are mentoning the Monte Carlo Rally 1969.

And yesterday Ill have spoken with Fokko Haanstra on the phone. We talked nearly an hour untill he must leave his home. It was a very nice phonecall and we keep.......

Yes, your right about the 411 L Variant. Only pre-production prototypes.
Ill have original pressfoto's of the VW 411 L Variant, but don't know how to bring them on this site. Send me your e-mailadress and I'll give them to you.

The relationship between EA 142 and EA 158 is that they both are built in 1966. VW had problems those days. Really don't know what to do. That's why you have seen a lot of prototype's. The problems with the Type 4 were great, so great that they (Lotz etc.)stopped the Type 5 project (VW 311, prototype from VW-America) in 1969. Aircooled out, Watercooled is the future (K70)

Neil, I'll left school 26 years ago! Next time in Dutch??

Ton

Velen bedankt Ton!

You needn't worry about your English, I have absolutely no problem understanding you; I'm sure your English teacher would be very impressed!!

I've sent you a PM