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panel wrote:

yvre wrote:14.5 psi = 1 bar = 100 kPa

Yes but.......

Who can convert those inches(above chart) into KPA? Cause when I do it 30" becomes 101.59KPA and the 15" becomes 50.8KPA and that for some reason looks wrong to me?

Never mind...

Your calculation is correct.

0" is atmospheric pressure or 100kPa (absolute).
15" below 0 is 50kPa vacuum, or 50kPa absolute pressure
30" below 0 is 100kPa vacuum, or 0kPA absolute pressure

Same as the other table, apart from the fact that that one starts a bit higher at 30kPa absolute.
That's how I understand it...

Blobber wrote:Now I have tried the VE Analyze Live, in TS.
I was not satisfied, it made the engine running very lean. I do not know why, because my afr table is not lean.

Any ideas why?

Your graph looks very very noisy. If you can calm your MAP signal a little it will clean up your RPM and PW a bit.

What wideband are you using to target with? Most of your NA map is 15:1 that is about as hot as you can run! I hope you are running really advanced ignition with that or are monitoring EGT so you don't do damage your engine. From what I have found my engines have really like a mixture of 13.5-13.8 most of the time.

VEAL has worked really well for me. Just make sure it isn't set to normal or easy on an already well tuned motor.

my .02

MarioVelotta wrote:

Blobber wrote:Now I have tried the VE Analyze Live, in TS.
I was not satisfied, it made the engine running very lean. I do not know why, because my afr table is not lean.

Any ideas why?

Your graph looks very very noisy. If you can calm your MAP signal a little it will clean up your RPM and PW a bit.

What wideband are you using to target with? Most of your NA map is 15:1 that is about as hot as you can run! I hope you are running really advanced ignition with that or are monitoring EGT so you don't do damage your engine. From what I have found my engines have really like a mixture of 13.5-13.8 most of the time.

VEAL has worked really well for me. Just make sure it isn't set to normal or easy on an already well tuned motor.

my .02

Maybe I should try an in-line fuel-filter at the map signal. That helped me the last time.

My WB is an LC-1.

Does it have any influence that I don´t have any check-valve at my fuel-pump?
How long time do you have pressure at you rail after you have switched your pump off? My pressure drop right after the pump is off.
The sound from my fuel-pump is changing, according to the engine speed, and I was think that it maybe could be because of the missing check-valve.

Blobber wrote: Maybe I should try an in-line fuel-filter at the map signal. That helped me the last time.

My WB is an LC-1.

Does it have any influence that I don´t have any check-valve at my fuel-pump?
How long time do you have pressure at you rail after you have switched your pump off? My pressure drop right after the pump is off.
The sound from my fuel-pump is changing, according to the engine speed, and I was think that it maybe could be because of the missing check-valve.

The filter will do it most of the time. Do you have a dash gauge with your lc-1? If so does it read what TS reads?

My pump does have a check valve installed and it will usually hold about 20lbs for 15 minutes or so. Do you have a vac referenced fuel pressure reg? That will pull your pressure up and down but I'm not sure if you could hear the change in the pump.

@Blob:
That AFR table looks a bit scary to me!
It is pretty lean when you are off boost, make sure you have enough timing when you running this lean ...otherwise your heads will be running too hot.
Do you have a head temp gauge? (I know we talked about it before but can't remember if you ever installed a guage)

/Jacob

MarioVelotta wrote:

Blobber wrote: Maybe I should try an in-line fuel-filter at the map signal. That helped me the last time.

My WB is an LC-1.

Does it have any influence that I don´t have any check-valve at my fuel-pump?
How long time do you have pressure at you rail after you have switched your pump off? My pressure drop right after the pump is off.
The sound from my fuel-pump is changing, according to the engine speed, and I was think that it maybe could be because of the missing check-valve.

The filter will do it most of the time. Do you have a dash gauge with your lc-1? If so does it read what TS reads?

My pump does have a check valve installed and it will usually hold about 20lbs for 15 minutes or so. Do you have a vac referenced fuel pressure reg? That will pull your pressure up and down but I'm not sure if you could hear the change in the pump.

Where will be the best location for the filter? near the engine or near the MS? (My MS is located in the front of the car. So the map-hose is about 2,5-3m.)

Yes my fuel pressure has a vac reference, and I am using an Aeromotive A1000 regulator, so I think the quality is good.

No I don´t have an afr gauge for the moment. Right now I am collecting things to make an order from Summit, but the postage and tax are make it expensive, so I have to make sure the get all the parts at one time. Getting the parts would really be much cheaper if I lived in US

warp wrote:@Blob:
That AFR table looks a bit scary to me!
It is pretty lean when you are off boost, make sure you have enough timing when you running this lean ...otherwise your heads will be running too hot.
Do you have a head temp gauge? (I know we talked about it before but can't remember if you ever installed a guage)

/Jacob

I have been measuring map-values at different speeds. 60, 80, 100 and 120km/h, and then send these values to "Farmer". He have then made an afr- and spark-table to me.
In oktober the engine is being dynoed, so I am exited to see how much power it can make.

No I don´t have an head temp gauge. I sold it beacuse it didn´t work right.

The filter works well to clean the map signal.
For the AFR, you can change the settings of your LC-1 so it sends the info to MS at a slower pace (you can choose between 1/32sec, 1/16sec, 1/8 sec etc... if I remember correctly).

klatin wrote:Minamikataro,
(snip for brevity)..........
In my engine I'm running close to 14.7 only during the 2nd half of the warmup cycle to get the engine warm faster. Even at (warm) idle I am running ~16.5, albeit with large advance there (setting it such that I get the lowest MAP (most manifold vacuum) for a given idle speed, which results in best idle BSFC). However, that method requires careful tuning of tip-in fueling from idle and a fast reacting MAP sensor (directly at the manifold) to have a fast reacting ign. advance change during tip-in.

It has occurred to me recently that tip in and response time is probably why VW mounted the FPR on the LJet T4s/wassers directly on the plenum with a ~3 inch vacuum hose connecting them...

The speed that the vacuum signal/FPR (and fuel pump capacity) and the resulting fuel pressure recovery happens probably has as much to do with the need for accel enrichment as anything else.

I'm going to experiment running a fixed fuel pressure first (no vac reference)... With proper drivers and modern injectors it should work fine NA.

I'd like to see more target AFR tables if I can from supaninja,Wally if he'll share,piledriver?

Supa.....hope you don't mind.Just trying to gather up everyones to compare etc.

http://supaninjanick.files.wordpress.co ... 8-3afr.jpg

http://www.fuelairspark.com/Products/Do ... rgetaf.htm

Just drop those top end (above 95 Kpa) numbers down about 0.3 AFR to be safe with our hot running engines.

Here's what I'm currently at, 1.8l T4, 2L 914 heads, Widened Vanagon plenum w/2L runners, web 73, EMW/Bursch/Bugpack muffled Tri-Y exhaust, full sequential w/LS2 coils and Pulstar Iridium plugs
(just to try them. They DO kick amazingly hard with these plugs) for fun.
Running Gslenders latest (v2.6), biggest change here tuning wise was using the MAP oversampling/averaging code from MS3. That change eliminated my max VE changing from ~115>85 in ~500 RPM@4200-4700 RPM.

(and fixing my AFR sensor install, was throwing AFR readings off .5-4+ full points, this was essentially reverse engineered from what my ass dyno said was good and was really running for ages)

14.1 is ~stoich with local E10, vs a heated NB I ran breifly as a test.
'include AFR target" turned OFF.

EDIT-reposted pics with out the rpm scale cropped off...

NA, running fixed fuel pressure.
65 MPH and ~60 MAP @~3200 RPM is cruise.
Idles ~45-50.

AFR target:
Timing: Not as scary as it looks. EGT/CHT say this is about right for this motor.
This engine also seems to be "knock proof" as I ran it for quite some time 27 degrees advanced due to some "extra" timing marks on the fan I installed... CHT and EGT were much cooler then VE1: (MLV/VEAL set on "very hard" has been in the noise for awhile)

Here's my current Target AFR table. The engine is a mild 1776 that operates under 5000 rpm. At my altitude MAP runs from 20-80 KPA.

I've established an "efficiency box" starting at 2000 rpms and below 66 KPA. I really wanted to avoid running close to 14.7 so the lean box has very steep boundaries. The VE table is configured similarly.

Most of my ordinary (non freeway) driving is done in the lean box between 2000 and 3000 rpms. On the freeway I can generally cruise at 70 mph and still be inside the lean box. And the low 15s AFR lets the heads run cool.

Max