strange heads

[joop]

I always thought it would be neat to put a motorsycle radiator or two in a 911 fan housing setup---
You could use 2 small ones over the jugs to help moderate the temps.

Exatly wat I was thinking

How about plumbing two inlets here.



Or would it be enough to use only the stock bleed plug hole?

[fastback]

i plugged most of the the holes and welded the non circular holes on the surface against the waterjackets.
and welded AN bungs on yhe inlent and outlet

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DSC00701.JPG

[joop]

Thanks for posting the pics

I've seen the inside of the heads now.... I don't think the coolant (oil in your heads ) will flow around the exhaust ports! It will go directly to the other side, because the openig over the sparkplugs is very big in diameter! The hot coolant wil not go to the bottom of the head!?

I've put m8 plugs in the small holes also, for the bigger holes I was planning to use m9. The 3 remaining holes can be easely welded.

I'm not criticizing your way of plumbing, only thinking along

How much did you skim of the T4 cylinders to make them fit next to each other?


Joop

[fastback]

i have only cut and done some grinding in the cylinder fins .and made cyl spacers to use stock WBX rod and pistons.
think (and hope) it will flow good inside the heads. since the heads must be "filled up" before exiting the port at the top of the head.
and with the combination of oilfilled head , an the heads are made of aluminuim , the hot spots will "added out" in the head , hopefully
and for your setup, coolant/water transfer heat extremely well , so as long as u have circulation , i can't se any problem.
please do not be afraid of comments, as i'm always open for inputs,


i'm using a converted drysump pump to get a seperate circuit for the oil .
The thing i'm also worried about about , is , that the oilflow would not be more or less equal in both heads. since these are connected in paralell, that not one head wil flow more than the other.??
and has also considered a electric oil pump only for the heads.

[tencentlife]

They'll flow equally if you have large flow lines to each head, then equal-sized restrictors at the outlet of each head, and enough pump pressure that the restrictors cause pressure to rise upstream. This will equalise pressure at the heads' inlets and flow across them will be equal.

I do think, too, that you should put some partial block at the midpoint of the upper head water galleries, so some of the flow is forced down and around the rest of the water passages, because it will just flow straight across the top since the gallery is large and open, and your outlets can't flow as much as the total head passages can. Either that, or take some flow off one of the lower openings where the drain screw is. Or introduce flow there and let it exit both top openings, or vice versa.

[Piledriver]

I'd be concerned about coking around the ex ports using oil for coolant.

Water is probably easily 2x as effective as a coolant...

[buildabiggerboxer]

Fasty, another view, i recon it would be theoretically prudent to put the feeds (cold) IN at the bottom (core plug area,) and remove the hot coolant (oil) at the (top) an fittings, mimicking the stock flow path. it wont work to take hot out at the bottom, all cooling systems flow low to high.
the problems with reversing the flow direction will occur when the heads are hot with a dead flow area low under the chambers,.....

[fastback]

some good inputs her guys.
i hope i get good flow and no "non moving" areas inside the heads to create oil coking.
a 26mm pum flow around gallons /min around 3000RPm
the drysump pump circuit that i will use has 21mm gears, so a great amount will circulate.
IIRC engine oil is 1/3 of water when it comes to thermal conductivity.

I'll give the system i have now it a go , and will try to monitor temps.
has tap'ed a couple of NPT threads in the heads for some temps sensors.

[3literboy]

I just saw a set with 3 cooling ports. The cooled water came in and was directed at each exhaust seat area. It was the same deal, welded up with new inch pipe tig welded at the point just below and to the side of the exhaust ports. The coolong medium would come in circulate at the exhaust seat area and then exit out the top. A 12 volt grangers RV shower pump for the water pump... Then the smallest honda radiator one can find. maybe a 72 pass cooler with 1/2 inch fittings and lines and an expansion tank. I would use antfreeze instead of oil.

So, a cooler, then a 12v RV shower pump, then a 1/2 inch or 3/4 line to a tfitting, then to two y fittings which connect to the bottom of the head cooling ports. Then connect the return lines at a tfitting and enter the expansion tank, and then the cooler again.

Then again, if you only had one intake port at the bottom with a 1 inch feed line and 3/4 return line, the head would fill completely up with water. You could run 2 seperate 72pass coolers with fans with water and have won common expansion tank at the highest point. I think with oil, the temps would hit 240 in no time flat......

With antifreeze, the water temp could be 240 while the oil is at 200

The Polaris motorcycle used cooling oil for the engine and transmission. They all shared the same oil.....It used a big motorcycle oil cooler with fan to cool 1700ccs

[Joe vw]

Neat project, I have thought about doing something similar, but always come back to the thought that keeping it all watercooled is most efficent.
I agree with others that the "coolent" should come in from the center-bottom and exit the corners to perge any air and even distribution. Regular coolent would be my choice, but you could always switch if it runs hot.
I see you are avoiding the corrosion issue
My thoughts and experience with cylinders is don't go larger than 96mm on a street engine- unless cooled with water.
If I had the money to spend, I would buy a set of these:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1318
(not sure if they will still be produced)
Use the 4inch bore stud spacing and turn them into waterboxer heads with my cooling setup.
This would allow you to use forged 4 inch type 4 pistons with type 1 style rods
As always it comes down to money
What displacement will your engine be Fastback?

[fastback]

the project started out as a watercooled head's setup, with somekind's small radiator setup built in the fanhouse, but went away from it.
for som reason
i see your points with enter at the bottom and exit out the two ports at the top.
this will be maybe the best alternative.
reason for this project is that i hav many many WBX heads ,P/C , rod's laying around , so it was to use parts i have easy access to also.AND to test the wbx heads to see how they perform , more or less unported, just trimed a tiny bit.

i use typ4 94mm cyl and the stocj DJ 76mm crank so it's a 2109cc

[buildabiggerboxer]

Hey fasty, is this a turbo motor? silly question really , it is isnt it?

[fastback]

it will be NA first...
but have to see how well the cooling works out first.

[fastback]

They'll flow equally if you have large flow lines to each head, then equal-sized restrictors at the outlet of each head, and enough pump pressure that the restrictors cause pressure to rise upstream. This will equalise pressure at the heads' inlets and flow across them will be equal.

i was thinking about adding a oilfilter after the heads and before returning to the sump.
(in case there is some gremlins inside the cooling galley's)
connect the 2 outputs from the heads into a Y-piece and then trough a filter.
do u think this will be enough restriction to equal the flow in both heads?

[tencentlife]

Yes, probably plenty of restriction. Where you want to be careful is that the restriction the filter offers is equal at both heads, so use large enough hose from heads to your Y-connection and length won't matter (if lengths need to be unequal) or if smaller hose is used keep the lengths equal.

I can't imagine why you would want a filter, though, unless you're planning on the oil doing double-duty as engine lubricant.