Imohr front suspension install impressions

[Ol'fogasaurus]

CAD is on the engineering side (I worked in CAD for many years and taught introductory CAD in the early 90s) while CAM is on the manufacturing side kind of like doing what a "pattern maker" or a manual machinist would have done back the dark ages (I was back in the dark ages also on the engineering side... before CAD). It took many years to get the two datasets to work together as while some datasets are easy to convert to machine language (water jet and laser cutting for example) but very involved datasets, for things like 8-axis milling machines, are way more complicated. Then came Boolean logic and I don't know what is out there now.

Lee

[maurice]

I didn’t even think about the different mounting and the lever ratio. I may have shot myself in the foot with that one though, had to put it in the middle to clear the coolant hose I ran through the a arm, and then the sway bar I mounted.
I’ll see if I can adjust stuff tomorrow.

That sounds like a complicated way of doing brakes, but really cool. An aftermarket vw or the Subaru brake swap wasn’t appealing enough to go for?

[hoghead]

That sounds like a complicated way of doing brakes, but really cool. An aftermarket vw or the Subaru brake swap wasn’t appealing enough to go for?

I bought the 996 brake parts 15 years ago for a Speedster project and just now using on my Beetle. Since I already have it, there was no point in importing more brake bits

Once modelled the track width can be adjusted by placing the rotor in the correct position relative to the hub and rim offset.
By the time I made a couple of axial to radial mount calliper brackets in order to get the calliper placement correct, a 3D model becomes attractive.
6 or 7000 series aluminium bar in that OD is not cheap, nor is machine time, so one only wants to make the hub once

The Global Dimension guys are gearheads, and keen to do this sort of work, which is a huge help for me. In fact they just modelled and 3D printed a switch gear clamp for my bike so that I can mount a Brembo MC in place of the Triumph integrated MC/switch gear clamp
Way cheaper than doing it on a milling machine

[maurice]

I jammed and got the car driving yesterday. It’s hard to assess how the car handles since I’ve got drag radials on the back. But the steering rack feels great! Killer turning radius even and plenty of clearance for wider tires (I’m only running 205’s now).

I’ll try to throw some sticker tires on the back and see how the car feels. I kinda forgot how mildly terrifying it is to drive my pos

[GS guy]

What tires are you running on the back Maurice? I'm very interested in your handling assessment since "performance" 15" tires in wider sizes (>225) are slim and none, except for drag radials. Not interested in drag racing my buggy personally, but am interested in how the drag radials handle in general. I've read promising things regarding the Nitto 555R for daily use (even on the front).
Jeff

[maurice]

I’ve used those nitto drag radials for a daily before and I wasn’t completely disappointed in their cornering. they were huge though 275-60-15. I ended up running over something and sliced one badly. They performed well in the rain too.
I’m currently running Mickey Thompson’s at a 235-60-15. The sidewall and compound seem much softer than the nitto’s, and I don’t think I’d trust them in the rain as much. They don’t like to corner hard, but they do hook quite well.

I’ve got a pair of 225-45-15 toyo ra1’s that I also use to daily, I’ll throw them on tomorrow and go for a spin. My dedicated street/track tire is a nitto nt01 in a 255-40-17, someone sold me a bunch of them cheap, and I’m running them on the front with a 205 width


As it is now, my front is crazy low, and I didn’t set the camber where I should. It hunts and twitches on bumpy roads at 5ish degrees of camber. I’m still gettting use to my new pedal setup and braking feel - I think one wheel has an air bubble still and that’s why I slide sideways when they all lock up...

I also forgot how terrifying 250hp can be in a short wheelbase light car. I’ll report back tomorrow after I get the front better setup.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I went back to page 2 and looked at what you have for brakes. Are you running hard or soft lines from the MC to the brakes or hard lines then soft lines for the suspension you have?

Lee

[maurice]

Similar to stock setup; hard lines from both the masters. For the front it’s stainless braided at the end to the calipers. For the rear it’s hard line to the inline hand brake, then hard line to the back, then stainless braided at the suspension pivot near the torsion tube, then back to hard line. In fact, half my hard line is still stock.

[hoghead]

Global Dimensions (Bangkok) were at my house scanning my Bugaru project in order to do design work for the IFS hub and 996 brakes. Brilliant technology and great guys!

Digital scanning allows then building a 3D model using software like SolidWorks, so that parts can be accurately designed, and fitted digitally, before committing to machining parts. The hub, rotor, and axial to radial mount calliper bracket will fit the first time and rotor position can be optomised to match the rear track (as much as possible anyway)
Much easier than doing it the old fashioned way, and the parts fit perfectly the first time.

The hardware was made in Canada and I wish I knew about this technology when I did my Tiger rear disc brakes back in Vancouver

[maurice]

So sick!

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Similar to stock setup; hard lines from both the masters. For the front it’s stainless braided at the end to the calipers. For the rear it’s hard line to the inline hand brake, then hard line to the back, then stainless braided at the suspension pivot near the torsion tube, then back to hard line. In fact, half my hard line is still stock.

Thanks Maurice. What drove the question was the braided SS lines as I am not what you would call a big supporter of them. Good for show but in the long run (pun intended) kind of disappointing.

Also looking at the digital scan then looking at one of the pix it looks like even though you have a spreader between the shock towers for the trans mount the torsion assembly looks to be kept stock and does not have the upper area additionally supported to the body and pan for it's addition support and load distribution of the torsion setup (something I am currently working on for my rig).

As a sand guy I have seen torsion problems both in buggies and older rails (the new stuff seems to have done some coverage of this or just eliminated the torsion setup all together) and I have heard of hard use problems of the torsion setup on the street and track.

Not trying to pick things apart but since you seem to be going this way it is more of a trying to help get a certain amount of other problems fixed.

Lee

[hoghead]

Thanks for the tip on the brace, and I did the same on the Speedster chassis I built.
This is the first Beetle body I have done, and I will need to cut the rear firewall to fit the Subaru twin cam engine - not sure yet how to do that and then reinforce it
After that bit of surgery, the body back on, and a pan sub-frame built, I was going to see how to fit additional bracing

The pic is not very clear, and the truss bar has a link going to above the IRS trailing arm pivot point

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Hoghead, an opinion: I don't think that will do what you want. Everything, including the trans mount is tied to the torsion housing but not to the pan and/or body. You want the loads to go forward to support the potential arc the torsion housing could take on a big bump or bottoming out. You still have the one (per side) bolt hole for the body but I suspect that it will be too weak.

IMG_2463 copy.jpg

I'm working on another way for off-road but still not fully sure about it yet. This shows a commercial Truss/kaffer bar but it stops on the torsion housing also. In the background (lower than the commercial unit) is the direction I am thinking of but it is the connection to the body/pan or, in case, the roll bar cage. I was supposed to be working on the last part, the support to the cage but it is a bad allergy season for me so far so no work done.

IMG_2462 copy.jpg

This is a standalone, not to scale of tubing, mockup with the forward leaning tube from the rear being the connection from my spreader for the truss bar to the roll cage and the diagonal tube in front of the join to the cage tube facing the front being the load transfer to the floor of the pan (it is more complicated than what you see here). The truss bar tube and the diagonal tube from the gage would be opposite each other shifting the load to the floor of the pan (doublers involved).

There is more to it but I don't know if it is going to help you. You could attach the truss/Kaffer bar to the bottom of the body (behind the seat) and get some support there. If you had a cage and the Kaffer/Truss bars went up and attached to the down bars from it... that might do the job.

IMG_2465 copy.jpg

Also, you extended the front of the pan to mount your front suspension on. Did you add fastener hookups to the body for support of you new design?.

Again, not being picky, this is just what I did for a living for just short of 34 years... to do my work correctly and check other's work . I could not change a design but I could ask the engineer questions.

Lee

[maurice]

Similar to stock setup; hard lines from both the masters. For the front it’s stainless braided at the end to the calipers. For the rear it’s hard line to the inline hand brake, then hard line to the back, then stainless braided at the suspension pivot near the torsion tube, then back to hard line. In fact, half my hard line is still stock.

Thanks Maurice. What drove the question was the braided SS lines as I am not what you would call a big supporter of them. Good for show but in the long run (pun intended) kind of disappointing.

Do tell what your experiences are with the stainless braided lines. Does the liner not last as long?


I drove the bug around today. My Cooling issues are 100% solved with an electric water pump connected to the same switch as the fan.
I was able to go around some slow speed corners and this thing turns in quick! However my ass end likes to slide around quite a bit. My springs are more than likely too stiff, and I probably need to get rid of the rear sway bar. The nice thing is that I have good feedback where the ass end is going to start to let go, and excellent control when I gave it enough gas to actually let go a bit more. When I was ready to exit a corner, I just put my foot down and shoot out from it. Probably a good setup for a tight autocross course, less so for a track. I’ve got compression and dampening to play with, as well as tire pressure and camber. and I was kinda scared to actually go hard not knowing if a cyclist or pedestrian was around the corner.

Front end I couldn’t really tell how it was doing with my ass end everywhere. It was fun doing some doughnuts though

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The main problem with braided SS lines is that the inner tube where the brake (or fuel) fluid goes is difficult to check to see if it has swollen (to the point of being blocked) or damaged. Normally a squeeze to check softness or hardness or squeeze when someone steps on the brake pedal to see if the fluid is flowing and the liner is good. As I have said before, braided SS lines were not really designed for constant flexing so the braiding strands can break (usually around the connections) due to the stress due to flexing.

Since I ride (in my case I am a cruiser not and not an aggressive rider) off-road I see things more fail more often than on the street might not see. I also look at things a bit differently than a lot of people do.

A VW pan is not really a Unibody design but "a backbone" chassis is a type of automobile construction chassis that is similar to the body-on-frame design. Instead of a two-dimensional ladder-type structure, it consists of a strong tubular backbone (usually rectangular in cross-section) that connects the front and rear suspension attachment areas. A body is then placed on this structure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_frame).

DSC00647 (2) copy.jpg

This is the backbone of a VW pan. The floors and body mount tunnel are added and while they can contribute to the structure they are not that structural by themselves. Not sure what you are doing with the pan but since my car does not have a true structural body (fiberglass w/no roof) I added both a body lift and, in the body mount tunnel, I added a 1" square tube. I should have used a 1" X 2" rectangular tube as the 1" square tube doesn't have the strength of the rectangular tube (a long story).

I am posting this as you are going a long way to do something (I think anyway) good but there is a lot more to it that should (in my opinion) be done.

Lee