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I understand where you are coming from. VW made the front end purposely high....maybe purposely....I think it was an accident. The front srtuts on this thing are HUGE. They are that way...because the front trunk is huge. If you load the trunk....it gets level . Unfortunately...this also if left loaded for extrem periods...will trash the strut cartridges, as the valving on them was weak. Its a catch 22.

Warning. Do not worry or even start on the front end...until you have replaced the rear shocks and done any marginal alignment work. If not...any assumptions about the front end will be 100% false.

Soon....I plan to start selling parts for these things. Its just taking longer than expected to move into my new residence and sort out my consulting work. I have a set of marketable prototypes I just started about two weeks ago...using a superbeetle tube, with 3 spacers (two for centering, one for length). This tube would be inserted into the 411/412 tube....and utilizes a welded top screw on coller. It will use the audi 4000 cartridge. The only necessary adjusting feature will be to extend the thread on the top of the existing 411/412 strut tube. If I can make or buy the right die...I may start offering re-threading, that as part of the kit...with a mail in or exchange service for strut tubes. Its a 30 minute bolt in to a 1" front drop with 30 minutes install, no welding...no construction.
It will be less involved than the previous design I posted about with the welded center pin. But... It will also only allow only 1/2 more of height adjustment than the 1"it comes with. That is only for side to side levelling.

But until everything gets stable around here....many things are crawling along. What I can do...is take a snap of the sketches with measurements for the top screw on extender pin modification I did years ago. It must be used with late model strut bushings only. The stub st-up, is a 30 minute install per side ...but you will have to have the stubs made at a machne shop.
I do not plan to make or sell that design. It works very well....but has risks. The risk is....that you must carefully clearance with a grinder....the top pin of the audi 4000 cartridge in order for it to bottom out tight in the threads of the extender stub. Then....use lock-tite..... and a set screw for safety. The risk is that there is still a lot of leverage on the top cartridge pin...no matter how careful you set things up. It is designed well for the combo it uses. But...adding extra spring tension and subtracting damping from the suspension......like using way too low profile tires.... or trying to lower any farther than 1"....by chortening the stub design...will very quickly put it at risk of snapping.

There is a third choice on your list you must recognize.....and I am not trying to be "pointy" here...so please take no offense.

The car does not care what you desire it to look like. It is what it is. Until more and better parts are forthcoming.......you must work within what you have. It is your car.....so this is just my personal opinion....but possibly destroying the underpinnings just because you won't drive it unless it looks better (and then stating is a waste unless you can drive it now)......is just not an option in my personal book. The 411/412 is not a bug (thank God!). it is not a quicky "buy it for $500 and slap on brakes and an engine and drive off). Its a much more complex and totally different car. If things are right.....it detsroys loads of parts.
By the way....if you bend the suspension....there is no "pan" on this car. It is all one piece. It is a long chassis, with long suspension componets....that encounter stresses that no other VW ever had to. If you make a decision and do something rashly on this car....you will pay for it quickl. It can be unforgiving in what it destroys.....and parts are not easily found.

Take your time is what I'm getting at. If its to ugly to drive...park it until you get it done right.
In fact...driving on suspension on 411/412's that has not been gone through is simply a recipe for lost $ and broken parts. Been there...done that.

These cars are worth keeping sitting still while you work out the fine details. Its just personnal taste...but bugs and vans are rarely worth sitting still for too long. they are also a dime a dozen in relative terms .....and parts fall fom trees. A type 3....yeah...maybe. Once you drive a type 4, properly sorted out...you will immediately realize that the rest of the ACVW....are basically outdated crap in comparison.....though I still love them so. Ray

again, i would really like to see your car and its stance... i have no problemw ith running a tire combo that will get he look i want vs lowering the suspension. but i usually see someone running a lower profile tire with a huge tire to fender gap and that looks just as bad as a high nose to me. i am trying really hard to leave this car as stock as possible, but... i am not opposed to changes if it doesn't deliver what i am after. so, the more options i am aware of, the more chance of making a mild change. thanks...

and don't worry ray, i understand where you are coming from.

Passion is as passion does!

I understand....just be aware...that unless you are an engineer or a superb fabrication welder....some of the changes you may be contemplating are simply not possible with this car...without major structural changes.
Its worth it to spend a very long time underneath these cars looking at how they are made.
I understand that YOU are not averse to lowering etc......but the car may be.
I am 250 miles from my 412 right now. I won't be able to do anything until Thursday. I will tie the rear down level and get a snap for you guys. Ray

Ray, I think that the best thing you can do to aleviate having to go thru this routine each time one of us gets on board the 411/412 lost tribe,i s to really get started on your modification kit (I prefer the ready to install version). Of course as time permits and when you settle down. But I can tell you this: "I am ready". It would even be great for us to put together a point by point instruction summary addressing the front end truing and respecing in one concise package that includes the suspension, steering, ball joints.........etc. I can't wait to get mine taken down and done right once and for all. Then I can turn my attention to wheels, interior, body & paint and make it a truely proud daily driver. Till then, I'll be waiting for the smoke signals

The front end instruction series has already begun. As I photograph each step....it also gets a page of type and refernce to the exploded parts list. In the next few weeks...I am ripping off my front end to start on the tank. At that stage....I can finish some of the basics of what to and how to. I may post that out so people at least have visual references into the probems I am solving....even before the parts come out. It will simpky be sent out on CD.
See...the other problem with this...is what do ou define as bolt up? Some want to send in their struts and get back ready to bolt in. Sure...but what are you willing to pay? Shipping alone will be ungodly...plus....though I have no problems with this...its just ime and effort,....i wold have to strip, clean, repair and retrofit whatever you send in. So sub-assemblies you add to your spring and tube would be best and most affordable all around.
Also...bear in mind that to use this...you need to have no flaws in your front end. Bushing, strut bearings, radius arm bushing, ball joints, idler bushings, control arm bushings, center link...and a method of adjusting castor are required. So in other words.....in order to warrant a single part...I would have to make the whole kit. Thats not a problem either....but in that case....it will only be able to be done at an on-time rate, with an exchange of strut tube , spring and sub-frame basis. In other words...ship me your parts...I will ship back a kit with a finished set of modified sub-assemblies. Part of what I am doing now....is assessing what it would cost as a kit. Ray

Sounds excellent. As to shipping, Greyhound are pretty affordable and accomodating to large items, while they last (already eleminating some routes).

raygreenwood wrote:The front end instruction series has already begun. As I photograph each step....it also gets a page of type and refernce to the exploded parts list. In the next few weeks...I am ripping off my front end to start on the tank. At that stage....I can finish some of the basics of what to and how to. I may post that out so people at least have visual references into the probems I am solving....even before the parts come out. It will simpky be sent out on CD.
See...the other problem with this...is what do ou define as bolt up? Some want to send in their struts and get back ready to bolt in. Sure...but what are you willing to pay? Shipping alone will be ungodly...plus....though I have no problems with this...its just ime and effort,....i wold have to strip, clean, repair and retrofit whatever you send in. So sub-assemblies you add to your spring and tube would be best and most affordable all around.
Also...bear in mind that to use this...you need to have no flaws in your front end. Bushing, strut bearings, radius arm bushing, ball joints, idler bushings, control arm bushings, center link...and a method of adjusting castor are required. So in other words.....in order to warrant a single part...I would have to make the whole kit. Thats not a problem either....but in that case....it will only be able to be done at an on-time rate, with an exchange of strut tube , spring and sub-frame basis. In other words...ship me your parts...I will ship back a kit with a finished set of modified sub-assemblies. Part of what I am doing now....is assessing what it would cost as a kit. Ray

Sounds kickass! I hope you are able to manage it, as I think the front end parts availability is a major hurdle for Type 4 popularity. Barring collapse of civilization, I'll be waiting. Oh, and yes, I have much experience driving with 40 series tires- the ride is brutal! You are right, I wouldn't recommend them for a car that is going to rack up a lot of miles, as it is indeed hard on suspension and steering parts, and we all know these are scarce to nonexistent for the Type 4. However, if the car is only going to be driven on nice Sundays and to a few club meets/shows, I think it could still work, though I agree I don't think it could be possible to sit as low as the nice mocked up side view shown. The other possiblity, is if we could somehow run the 17x5.5" Porsche alloy spare wheels. The problem is tires, I'm not sure how feasible 195/40 17" tires (yes, they exist) would be on a 5.5" wheel, I don't think they could work...