Not a single good MPS in the whole lot...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:23 am

Will do.

412jen · Post by **412jen** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:37 pm

vwbill wrote: 412Jen, I think our 30 plus year old cars once maintained like any other daily driver is very reliable and I used to get 28 mpg on the highway and that is good even these days! Any car needs hoses replaced and tuneups and parts replaced as needed!

Bill, I appreciate the fact that any car requires maintenance and tuneups and parts replaced and issues resolved, and I really appreciate that a 30+ year old car might need a bit more TLC than your average, Civic, say. I owned a 74 Beetle before this and understand they need a bit more lovin'.

My problem is that I am currently getting 10-12 miles to the gallon. Highway its 14. I simply can't afford a toy like this. If I had a car to get me around and this was simply a project, this would be no trouble for me and I wouldn't really mind. I just have to be realistic.

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:00 pm

Hi 412Jen, I hope you dont mistake my poor communication skills with lack of understanding,lol! I really do feel for you being in the place of needing a daily driver and dealing with a djet 412! It hurts going to the pump here and cant imagine what it's like up their watching the gas pump spin and you wallet crying foul! It just seems like you love your 412 or you wouldnt have adopted the misunderstond VW child,lol! I just dont want you to be so close to having a great VW classic and a great driver and not get the reward you deserve for trying! We all really need a great guy like Ray as our Neighbor and a VW 411/412 and some 914's bone yard a few miles away! It's hard to have the driver in the shop , if you can find one(shop) that doesnt give you that tilted Hmmm dog face look when you say"I have a VW 412"LOL! Can you tell us what has been check or replaced? It just seems weird that your car runs as a kinda driver and the MPS is a no hold vacuum to me? But if you have checked it then it's bad but your car must love you to be running at all with a leaking MPS! I couldnt even get mine to run well enough with a slow leaker to go around the block,lol! Hey Guys, does a leaking MPS give a lean mixture or rich?? 412Jen is a rich mixture? She is losing 50 percent of her fuel somewhere right? Could a high fuel pressure adjustment do that too? Or stuck open cold start valve? Does one plug look richer then any others like a leaking injector? Do you smell gas anywhere or can you smell it in the exhaust? I would think she would be putting out a white cloud like when my bus was dumping fuel in the carb from too high of pressure! Dont give up on her 412Jen she sounds like she is close! Sorry if I seemed like I was being a big richard about your situation! I'm just discursive and have poor communication skills! bill
p.s.Can a mis adjusted throttle switch cause high fuel use?

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:54 pm

Ok, after unloading my guess bedroom closet or as I call it my three year 412 parts room! LOL! I found a 049 MPS in a box of my many FI parts! I tested it and it holds 20in hg for five minutes, reads 93ohms on the primary term. 7 to 15 and 350ohm on the second term.! Now for the big question! I really want to help out 412Jen to get her a Daily driver but Uber has been trying so hard too I thought to get a daily driver and has been a great contributor here and to the 411/412 crew! Uber and 412Jen, you guys have to decide who gets it! I can send it out tomorrow! But I want the old unit! I have to look at my ebay log to even see what I paid... I know I wont be on the road soon if I ever since I havent been able for three years now with my skills so maybe someone else can make better use then me and have a driver 412 out there!! Bill

Bleyseng · Post by **Bleyseng** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:48 pm

raygreenwood wrote:Yes...you are getting it. In reality...D-jet is just about the simplest EFI system made.Problems that will mess up MPS adjustment:

(1) Vacuum leaks of any kind.
(2) Dirty, worn or high resistance trigger points.
(3) Low, incorrect or unstable fuel pressure.
(4) Poor adjustment of ignition timing.
(5) Poor valve adjustment.
(6) Heat banking and range problems in the CHT and the ambient air temp sensor.
(7) Injector resistance, spray pattern, cleanliness.
(8) Wiring harness, ground points and voltage supply.

These are some things to look at. Ray

Yes Ray, this pretty much sums up the tuning problems of djet! I do rebuild MPS's mostly taking good 1.7l ones to make 2.0L ones for 914's. I do use a Wavetek meter to calibrate a rebuilt MPS to a NOS MPS for a baseline. I also road test them in a car to make sure they don't suffer any driveability problems.
The BEST WAY to tune a MPS is to go to a dyno shop and do test runs testing the A/F mix and then adjust the MPS, both inner screws and the WOT stop to YOUR engine. or buy a L/N Meter and do it.($400)
partload is 13.7 to 1 and WOT is 12.5 to 1
Damn, they run good when its tuned right too!
Locally, when I sell a MPS I like to install it myself and drive the car to verify its other problems besides a blown MPS. I do have a Janbo Djet tester that helps sort out the Djet.

Far as I know, all "rebuilt" MPS's other than mine are set to 1.7l settings!
most are junk too, with soldered diaphrams that suffer from poor throttle response due to the stiffness from the soldering.

Waiting for a few test diaphrams from ya Ray!

Geoff

vwaddict · Post by **vwaddict** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:48 pm

Can someone post a picture of this part. I have a 1971 parts car with a few parts laying around in the back. My 1974 has no such part. I'll look for one if I knew what to look for.

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:10 am

Here what the MPS looks like:

vwbill, if 412Jen wants the MPS you have, then that would be fine. If the vacuum bleeds down, even though it holds awhile, I still don't know if that is good enough though?

Bill, what happened to your 412, as I recall, you had some problems after an engine rebuild?

Bleyseng · Post by **Bleyseng** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:37 am

It means it will work ok just that the throttle response sucks alittle bit.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:12 am

The 049 is technically the one that was on the 914. The 1.7 D-jet 914 and the 411/412 914 used the same part...regardless of part number. There is no calibration difference. The 2.0 D-jet ...was the same part as the 1.7...with slightly different tuning. Just get a good one and tune it.

Just remember...that early type 3 MPS's..cannot be swapped with late type 3 or 411/412. If your type 3 had a seprate full load diaphram switch under teh FI runners on the right hand side....then your MPS has no copper diaphram....and will not interchange with late D-jet.

Bleyseng. Yes...I agree...that the dyno is the simplest and easiest way to tune the MPS. But...actual driving and tuning it is the most "exact"....but tedious. It Takes into account the way vehicle performs with different gearing, tires and driving habits. It really is all about how you use the pedal....because the MPS reacts to the changes the TB makes to its controlled environment.....as well as the rpm and temperature condition of the engine. I also agree....that until you have driven D-jet...with a really nicely tuned engine, solid fuel system....and highly tuned MPS...you have no idea what you are missing. There is few if any injection that drives smoother or has better throttle response. Ray

412jen · Post by **412jen** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:42 am

Hi Bill - no need to apologize. I'm frustrated and likely a bit edgy about the whole thing.

uber, are you sure you want to give it up to me? I intend to simply sell my car so if you want the MPS feel free to call dibs and I will keep hunting.

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:58 pm

Hey Guys, the one I have holds good vacuum! 412Jen you will still be selling your sweety even if you get her running right again?? Sad,Sad!
They are great cars! Mine is so sad now sitting on the side of the gargage covered;the wheels I stripped and redid are rusted now after my lame rebuild of the engine and getting the bad head to cylinder(#1 cyl,) seating from not lapping right!! The engine bay looks nice! Now from the humidity here the interior has molding again and that happened within a week! It hurts to see her sitting there but I cant get to her before I finish siding Mom's place and that became a mission since the bathroom wall was rotten and carpenter ants from a window leak and I had to reframe/rewindow that which then left me with redoing the tile shower and floor since the walls weren't being held up by anything! No space anyway in the gargage since I have T1-11 siding there! I know I wont be on to my 412 before midyear so please someone make good use of this MPS 049!! It's Boxed and ready to be a installed! Just send me the old one and we will be square on postage! I'll have to check what I paid but I must have gotten it from a lot of injector parts from a ebay auction...
Uber, I dont know how far along you are in your driver and 412Jen I wish you would be keeping your car!! Tell us if you are selling... Sad,Sad! What were you going to get then?? Let me know guys!! Post someones address or email it to me at vwbill@msn.com!

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:01 pm

Hey Guys, the one I have holds good vacuum! 412Jen you will still be selling your sweety even if you get her running right again?? Sad,Sad!
They are great cars! Mine is so sad now sitting on the side of the garage covered;the wheels I stripped and redid are rusted now after my lame rebuild of the engine and getting the bad head to cylinder(#1 cyl,) seating from not lapping right!! The engine bay looks nice! Now from the humidity here the interior has molding again and that happened within a week! It hurts to see her sitting there but I cant get to her before I finish siding Mom's place and that became a mission since the bathroom wall was rotten and carpenter ants from a window leak and I had to reframe/rewindow that which then left me with redoing the tile shower and floor since the walls weren't being held up by anything! No space anyway in the gargage since I have T1-11 siding there! I know I wont be on to my 412 before midyear so please someone make good use of this MPS 049!! It's Boxed and ready to be installed! Just send me the old one and we will be square on postage! I'll have to check what I paid but I must have gotten it from a lot of injector parts from a ebay auction...
Uber, I dont know how far along you are in your driver and 412Jen I wish you would be keeping your car!! Tell us if you are selling... Sad,Sad! What were you going to get then?? Let me know guys!! Post someones address or email it to me at vwbill@msn.com!

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:13 pm

OK, I'll take it since you guys twisted my arm!

Bill, I e-mailed you.

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:05 am

Hey Guys, sorry but I wont be able to get going with the MPS for awhile! My father pasted away this morning and will be heading south to be with my family for awhile!! Take care and remember to hug and call your family to let them know you care! bill

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:24 am

My condolences VWbill....

Ray