Page 21 of 21
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:15 am
by split1950
Chip Birks wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:59 am
Honestly, ride height isn't that tricky. You just have to have the initial loaded baseline (which you now have), and then adjust from there. There are charts out the that show how far adjusting each tooth (inner or outer or combo of both) will shift ride height. You know where it is now, just do the simple math to get where you want it to be and adjust. Were you already close to the stops with your current ride height. There is no preload on my bars and the car sits exactly where I want it. I do have a lot more tire diameter than you do though. Mine are 26 inches, yours look closer to 23" or 24". That obviously isn't helping your ground clearance issue either, and may justify preload compared to the setup I have.
I think folks make bar recommendations based on building potato chip race cars, those of us with these heavy turbo'd street cars can get away with a ton more bar than generally recommended. My car had 29mm bars and the ride was not stiff at all. If anything, I probably should have gone with 30mm bars but at the time they weren't available.
This is a good stage to be at, fabrication is fun and all, but it's satisfying to be at the assembly and adjustment stage too. Almost there! Are you going with a similar color to what you have on there now?
Right - now I have the "datum" I know where to go. I had almost no preload because I put the spring plates on without the tool.. Now on its wheels the angle of the plates is about -1 degrees so the suspension is pretty compressed leaving me with 50mm ground clearance to the rear engine bar.
I'm running 17" wheels with I think a 185/40 profile tyre so yes that contributes. I see there's a tool so I'll get it.
I had an idea, I bought some 40x40x5mm steel angle to make fake shocks and fake the rear height quickly with the wings etc on so I can determine the desired height. The steel angle should just "help" the torsion bars and keep the spring plate angles fixed for this activity, obviously not for driving.
I'm glad to be done with fab, I tuned my buddies 914 with a blower on it a month ago and now I'm desperate to enjoy mine.
The paint....that Green is epoxy sealer. My wife calls it Kermit. I have a stock interior from Lenny Copp and am going for the stock colour for the car (it was a matching numbers car before I did this) which is Pastel Green L11. There are 0 body mods to get all this in except the removable valence. Everything is bolt in, no holes drilled in the body. It took a lot of planning!!
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:53 am
by Bruce.m
I have 944 rear bars in the thinnest size. 30% increase over stock if I remember correctly.
The back end was a bit vague on the initial test drives. Then I fitted my rear sway bar (944 stock part, again, the thinnest version). That sorted it out and I’m happy with it now.
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:32 am
by split1950
Yeah that will stiffen things up too!
I don't have a sway bar, but I am thinking I may need coil overs too, but they are an easy swap.
How does it attach to the chassis? Maybe I could find a way......
I have an similar issue up front, the front mount oil cooler means I think I have no space for a sway bar there either....unless I do something trick
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 12:28 am
by Piledriver
The 944 spring plates are also adjustable for height to some extent.
I built coil overs and slid the torsion bars in with ~no preload as sway/anti squat/anti dive bars.
(work like "4 Way" coil overs but fully integrated) Did same up front but I have a T3....also splined bars.
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:23 am
by split1950
Hmmm interesting stuff.
I've bought a 944 rear sway bar (14mm) and designed some mounts for the "saddles" for the bushes that I will laser cut from 6mm steel.
Hopefully in a few days I'll have them ordered for cutting (its not so easy in the UK we don't have send cut send!).
My back up plan is coil overs if I still get too much squat.
As its a split the shock towers don't exist I had to cut them from 10mm steel and use the lever shock M12 bolts to mount them. I also added a "kafer bar" / 5 link thing that will help. I'm not sure if the shock towers would take the abuse of a coil over like you did.
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 5:39 am
by Bruce.m
You can buy bolt on mounts for the sway bar from Kerscher in Germany.
I made my own from a tube clamp (U bolt) selected based on the OD of the torsion tube & using genuine Porsche 944 chassis mounts bought from the local dealer. Pictures are elsewhere on the forum I think
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 5:45 am
by Bruce.m
Added a photo to bump the thread “kerscher sway bar bracket”
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:58 am
by split1950
Bruce.m wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 5:39 am
You can buy bolt on mounts for the sway bar from Kerscher in Germany.
I made my own from a tube clamp (U bolt) selected based on the OD of the torsion tube & using genuine Porsche 944 chassis mounts bought from the local dealer. Pictures are elsewhere on the forum I think
Oh now I've been and designed some myself.....I'll post pics when they arrive from the laser cutter.
At least I have a plan B now though, thank you
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:50 am
by Wally
split1950 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:23 am
Hmmm interesting stuff.
I've bought a 944 rear sway bar (14mm) ..
Imo, those hardly do anything on a bug. Try to get a 18mm at least.
I run a 24mm swaybar from Whiteline and even that one is by no means 'overkill'.
Just as a reference point, but could be of some importance when you are about to design and cut some metal
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 7:05 am
by split1950
Wally wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:50 am
split1950 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:23 am
Hmmm interesting stuff.
I've bought a 944 rear sway bar (14mm) ..
Imo, those hardly do anything on a bug. Try to get a 18mm at least.
I run a 24mm swaybar from Whiteline and even that one is by no means 'overkill'.
Just as a reference point, but could be of some importance when you are about to design and cut some metal
My bad, measuring the bar just now it is 18mm (not including its paint)...lucky!.....however, the brackets are done is such a way I can just exchange the sway bar for a different 944 one. I assume they change the bushes and the rest is stock. I used rose joints for the drop links to give a bit more flexibility.
I had considered the M030 option bar but they're expensive and at first I had no idea if a 944 sway bar will even fit as the split bug chassis + homemade IRS + 915 gearbox makes this quite "different", I had no stuff here, I've never done this before, yardy yardy ya.....
I'm also thinking about coilovers to compliment the torsion bar set up front and rear. I'm really tempted by the Stanceparts air cups (
https://www.stanceparts.com/product/a-s ... -air-cups/) front and rear, so I can have some lift and not use airbags / use proper shocks. I need to see if the Gaz springs will fit under and if the cups + shocks will fit onto the car......
2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 7:20 am
by Bruce.m
If you are running higher spring frequency then I’d agree that the 14mm bar isn’t going to be that noticeable.
However for others running a softer road set up, I certainly could feel a difference, particularly at speed, in gentle curves or during lane changes at highway speeds. Removed vagueness at the rear. Less noticeable in aggressive cornering.
(I’m running a 15mm whiteline front bar also, which is a good compromise between stock 13mm & the usual 3/4” (19mm) empi option)
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 7:25 am
by split1950
Bruce.m wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 7:20 am
If you are running higher spring frequency then I’d agree that the 14mm bar isn’t going to be that noticeable.
However for others running a softer road set up, I certainly could feel a difference, particularly at speed, in gentle curves or during lane changes at highway speeds. Removed vagueness at the rear. Less noticeable in aggressive cornering.
(I’m running a 15mm whiteline front bar also, which is a good compromise between stock 13mm & the usual 3/4” (19mm) empi option)
Front is not yet done as it is king and link pin (1950).
I also have a front oil cooler that I'm pretty sure is in the way of the usual accessory sway bar kits.
I have made this difficult for myself it seems
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 7:28 am
by Wally
Without front sway bar (option), I would indeed be on the very moderate side for the rear (so maybe just keep the thin one for now) as its all in the balance we all know
Re: 2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 7:37 am
by split1950
yes....I will find a way for a front sway bar, mounted off the torsion tubes I guess, with splines each end and then some custom "arms".
I've so many half done things right now I want it all back together before I do that on the front.
Christmas has slowed down laser cutting etc...
I do feel lucky, the eBay listing was for a 14mm bar, I have an 18mm, so that worked out at least a decent starting point. It's inevitable that, with all I've done, there is going to be fine tuning needed.
I have until end of May before I get my slot at the painters.....