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Since we are covering the subject of disc-to-hub conversions, for anyone else watching.
Fitting a radial caliper to a front spindle may require some machining. I haven't finished this stage myself so can't confirm the full spec. I'm using stock spindles with Ali square bar adapters (same as rear above). Following Ricola's example & website, I've had the spindles spot faced to give plenty of flat mounting surface for the caliper adapters. I suspect the spindles will need drilled/tapped for a pair of new mounting threads as the stock threads are probably too close to the pads but I've not confirmed all that yet.

Bruce, even if you are not going to use the two holes closer to the spindle spud that the "spot facing" is going through I think I would do two things.

1) Extend the spot face behind the holes using the size of a washer as a guide and ...

2) put a decent radius on the inner surface of the spot face.

There should be and inner and outer radius on the inner side as you now have a stress riser and the other radius would be a "brake sharp edges (corners) per..." type of thing also giving a rise to a "stress riser".

The threaded holes now could be considered a weak spot which they probably were when originally designed which is why the "extra meat" was added as shown/indicated by the relief in the build up you partly machined away.

After watching some of the automotive "how to" shows on TV lately the subject of braking sharp edges and other stress relieving things like this have been talked/pushed a lot more than they used to do. The old hot rod days of "hacking things off and working with that" has turned a sharp but stress relieved corner I think.

Lee

Good "spot" and point well made.

Somewhere I was musing about how easy it would be to make a late T3s rear camber setting adjustable by making adjustable inner pivot mount... My idea was weld plates on the torsion and back of the std pivot bracket and allow it to move, then bolt the plates together.(Whole inner mount movable)

The following is more easily adjustable via a jackscrew, although I'm fuzzy how strong it would be vs the movable mount.
Yes this would raise the rear roll center on a lowered car. That is not necessarily a bug, likely a feature.
The article mentions Porsche raised the inner (and shorter arm) on RSRs, then raised BOTH pivot points on 935 to add antisquat.

This is a setup to achieve adjustment on a modded 930:
I assume the jackscrew fork bit has holes for the bolt and the crossbolt runs in slots in the mount.
Tightening the crossbolt locks things in place.

You could probably put the adjustment screw on the bottom for easier driveway alignment access, but on an proper alignment rack top is just as easy.

Pile, do you have a similar picture of how the stock Type III suspension would be? Again, for some reason I was under the impression that it was more similar to a Type I.

Lee

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:Pile, do you have a similar picture of how the stock Type III suspension would be? Again, for some reason I was under the impression that it was more similar to a Type I.

Lee

The inner trailing arm pivot mounts are identical to a t1, except late T3s have no frame horns, so the inner pivot mount hangs out there alone instead of being embedded partially into the frame horn.
There's nothing in the way.

My outdoor "shop" is still to muddy to work/jack the car to take a pic, so ...
Borrowed picture:


IMHO this would be far easier and a much better plan than flipping trailing arms and cutting off/flipping the shock mounts and hoping it all works out.

Would need a HD normal bolt/locknut and spacer instead of the factory bolt setup and a different or modded bracket to make it like the 930 setup shown.
If bracket was made movable you could keep the factory bolt setup.

What is the wishbone for?

From what little I know know, based on the short introduction you so kindly have provided. what I am seeing should allow for a pair of mounts, with the proper geometry built in, to change the rear suspension height, up or down, quite easily. There would most likely need engine mounts that followed the available rise or lowering that would match the new pivot.

Reminds me of what has been done on rails with waterpumpers except I don't remember seeing adjustable height pivots. How close are we to just cutting to the chase and broaching A arm IRS with this?

Lee

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:What is the wishbone for?

The T3 suspension is entirely rubber mounted//bolts in, not part of the pan.
The front beam is clamped in via big rubber surrounding bits with stamped metal caps, not directly bolted.
... remember, back in the day, a T3 was VWs top end luxury car.
Isolated rubber mounted subframes were probably pretty cutting edge automotive design work for 1961.
The swing axle cars >67 had frame horns as part of the rear suspension for obvious reasons.

The motor/trans mounts (on late models)consist of a thicker T1-ish front mount on the trans, and a rubber mounted hanger bar in the back attached to the body.

The lack of frame horns and IRS allowed fitting a true automatic trans.

That "wishbone" is the front mount, attaches to a big rubber donut mount over a knob under the tunnel.
It has a retainer plate that bolts on the bottom of the pan.

Another borrowed pic

How close are we to just cutting to the chase and broaching A arm IRS with this?

Lee

My back yard is still a mud pit after some heavy rains, same storm system currently crippling the east coat.
If I had a garage or decent weather it might have been done already, as actually doing it/fabbing the bits looks almost trivial.
I'm just surprised it isn't common practice, and somewhat concerned I'm missing something.

It IS my preferred daily driver though, so it has to work right first time and not take weeks.

Most of the year its not an issue as things dry out quickly, but its cold, so the black gumbo clay mud sticks around.

My one functional neuron just fired, and I realized you can cut out and weld a center rear torsion adjuster on a T3 with no jigs, as it is already very well supported by its design.
(The "wishbone")

So it will get simple T1 single spring plates, no need for complex shenanigans with the 944 spring plates.
If I ever want easy rear adjustment i'll just drop the torsion and weld an adjuster in some weekend.
Better solution anyway, esp combined with the adjustable inner pivot.
What size rear torsion adjusters fit a stock beam dia?

It is funny how an unrelated question will drive out "the obvious" thoughts isn't it? I can't tell you how many times, while checking someone else's' work, I took the drawing (check print) back to them and put it down... upside down (the top of the drawing towards him) and almost immediately got an AW $#IT. Sometimes you have to look at something a bit differently than you have done. You can look at something for too long and get complacent over it.

I don't know about your last question but there are several versions of the center adjuster out there. Are the torsion bars the same? If so it might be as simple as measuring outside diameters and choosing the version you want.

The single spring plate and the <85 944 adjustable ones measured .163"
The dual spring plate blades measure: ... .163" each.
Makes sense, they probably had a million spring plates made at a time, so use 2 of the same blade for the duals.

Unless someone is in need of dual spring plates their fate is sealed.

Will check if they are welded on both sides and fix as needed.

I was doing the numbers today on going coil over (purely as an exersize of course ) using the relocated/adjustable inner pickup idea and attaching the front Heim joint ~2" higher for anti-squat like later Porsches used.(inner would need to adjust to match)

Bilstein SG small dia 6" stroke coil over ready shocks look about perfect, 90 ea retail, and the coil over spring mounts/threaded tube bits for them are only ~$40, 2" springs $55-80 ea and the damping settings is available in a huge range, linear or digressive.

Throw in the rear height adjuster... (still haven't figured out which one will work on a T3 torsion)
...and make the heim joint spring plates, as the ones sold look iffy to me, and they are thick in the wrong place....
Rather use German steel (perhaps the blade I cut off)

So <~$600 for real coil overs and an easily adjustable (height, toe and caster, as well as anti-squat) rear suspension with improved geometry, unlike the $$$$ Mendeola rear setup. Tubular trailing arms in 0/0 would take it to about a grand even.

... Fully weld the rear arm shock mounts and add fabbed kafer bar and set upper shock mount for double shear, i suspect the fabricated steel T3 shock mounts are stronger than the cast unit on T1s, and can easily be reinforced.

Glad I don't race it, that sound like a busy weekend.
I still don't understand why coil over kits cost $thousands.
Rebuildable Bilsteins only cost a little more, but I think are all 2".

I suspect its just going to get the SACO delrin bushings. Maybe.
May have to see how those Bilsteins would fit to replace my current Monroes with the 4-ways.

OK, I need a sanity check on some inexpensive, forged to shape aluminum front hubs for VW ball joint spindle.
(not a unicorn, oxymoron or typo)

Wilwood 270-8771 for 62-72 A body mopar w/drum spindles.
Use it with an a1 and a15 bearing.
Mopar spindle gets an A1 and A4, but the bearing ODs and spacing work in the hub and that is stock size for BJ spindles/914/T4xx,

havent worked out the grease seal as It's late.
http://www.wilwood.com/Hubs/HubProd.asp ... o=270-8771
Street price is lower than MSRP.

Checked vs Ghia disc drawing posted previously.
I have the bearing<>bearing outer spacing ("N" in docs) @2.3", VW at 2.290 (in the noise)
The wheel seat plane is out +0.200" ("M" in docs) 2.95 vs. VW 2.750) could be a bug or feature.
Can take hats or direct bolted Wilwood vented discs of right type, look like 911 discs.
Can be cut to center steel hats
Can probably be cut to be wheel hubcentric, or at least made to take off the shelf hubcentric adapter rings.


Doesn't come in 5x5.12 (AKA 5x130) but I suspect Wilwood makes most from the same forgings, so doable.

I'll try to figure out the 911 spindle/hub cross tomorrow gotta crash.

Marco made IRS inner pivot bolt with eccentric for camber adjustment.

http://www.marcomansiperformance.com/products.html

Simplified rear A-arm suspension for consideration . Bwahahahaha

Lee

Steve Arndt wrote:Marco made IRS inner pivot bolt with eccentric for camber adjustment.

http://www.marcomansiperformance.com/products.html

Very Slick, but also moves the pickup forward and backwards, which could be a bug or a feature, depending on desired toe change and tire clearances etc.

I'm going for caster adjustment w/no toe change, but the combination may be useful.

Marcos in the US now, right?