Engine Rebuild? What went wrong????

[raygreenwood]

Be very careful and check the part #'s The Q's...as Ham mentions are slightly better castings. Also, there was a right and left, differentiated by the CHT boss. Some had the stubs for PCV connections...some did not. Some had the dang smog ew seats anyway...and pump ports drilled in them. But essentially they are all the same casting...with the same combustion chamber shape. Dump those stock valve sizes. You need new seats anyway. 42 x36 valves are perfect for these. Ray

[raygreenwood]

Be very careful and check the part #'s The Q's...as Ham mentions are slightly better castings. Also, there was a right and left, differentiated by the CHT boss. Some had the stubs for PCV connections...some did not. Some had the dang smog ew seats anyway...and pump ports drilled in them. But essentially they are all the same casting...with the same combustion chamber shape. Dump those stock valve sizes. You need new seats anyway. 42 x36 valves are perfect for these. Ray

[raygreenwood]

Be very careful and check the part #'s The Q's...as Ham mentions are slightly better castings. Also, there was a right and left, differentiated by the CHT boss. Some had the stubs for PCV connections...some did not. Some had the dang smog ew seats anyway...and pump ports drilled in them. But essentially they are all the same casting...with the same combustion chamber shape. Dump those stock valve sizes. You need new seats anyway. 42 x36 valves are perfect for these. Ray

[vwbill]

Hey why does the bus motor have less hp then the 412 motor in the books? Is it just a Clymers/Bentley deal or a date spec issue or is it the dome on the 412 pistons increase the ratio from 7.3 to 8.2??? Is it a cam issue or the head? That hp difference is about twenty hp. That is alot!
Bill

[DeathBus]

Its all those things and more Bill. The Porsche and 412 engines are highly sought after by bus guys because of their higher hp! ESPECIALLy the 1.7's and 1.8's.

[vwbill]

Hey, so if the heads spec out at the same valve sizes and the piston is the same less the dome area and the stroke is the same; is the cam the difference and the dome area of the piston? Why wouldnt the demand be on the dome piston and 412 cam cut and make the 412 the cheaper rebuild with more HP! Why do they always go to 2.0L when the 1.7 412 setup is a better performer? Isn't that more efficent all around?
I would think everyone would perfer the higher hp and lighter piston
for all applications?? I just look at the 911 heads on ebay and think wow that is a nice looking connection and function in a small package why arent they all like that? LOl I'm just trying not to have built a bus lower hp motor when I want a stock 412 performer! Vrrrooooommmm.....!
Bill

[DeathBus]

Hey, so if the heads spec out at the same valve sizes and the piston is the same less the dome area and the stroke is the same; is the cam the difference and the dome area of the piston? Why wouldnt the demand be on the dome piston and 412 cam cut and make the 412 the cheaper rebuild with more HP! Why do they always go to 2.0L when the 1.7 412 setup is a better performer? Isn't that more efficent all around?
I would think everyone would perfer the higher hp and lighter piston
for all applications?? I just look at the 911 heads on ebay and think wow that is a nice looking connection and function in a small package why arent they all like that? LOl I'm just trying not to have built a bus lower hp motor when I want a stock 412 performer! Vrrrooooommmm.....!
Bill

Alot of it Is not knowing what to build.

Sure you can build a 2 litre BUS engine, but the valves in the stock heads are so small it will never really perform. Although I can squeeze about 85 or 90 HP out of mine, with a mild cam, 40mm dual carbs, performance exhaust.

You can build a stock 914 2 litre and it will out perform a 2 litre Bus engine ALL DAY, completely different heads, comes stock with bigger valves, different firing chamber, different pistons etc. The 914 heads along with alot of the motor parts were designed by Porsche not VW.

AW code Bus engines are my choice because they have almost the same valve size as a 2 litre 914 engine. You use AW heads cut to 94 mm and put on a 2 litre bus motor YOU WILL have a performer, with the correct carbs and cam set up. I have heard of some guys squeezing almost 105 hp out of one like this.

[vwbill]

I want bolt abilities! Lol ! I want to buy a short block, set of heads and pistons and jugs that already will match and run my fi system and use stock exhaust and run with little maint. I dont want to have to do all kinds of formula measurements and special porting and polishing to get back to a normal 412 hp or better on a 2L setup when I have basically that with a 1.7L stock setup,lol! Can I buy my dome pistons new from wiseco or mahle or will they need cutting or something to work? Can I just get a basic bus short block 1.7 or would I need a different cam cut and rods?
Can I buy a stock bus 1.7L head that shows the same valves size and get 412 perf.? Or is valve size not the factor is it the port type? I think Its weird how the exhaust guide is in the port going out. LOL! I guess I always liked the build up and cost of the popular 1600 bus motors!
I want the standard to be 412 with 911 performance,lol!!! For like 1200 bucks,lol! bill

[raygreenwood]

The 411/412/914 1.7 were all identical. They ran very well at 82 hp. They can run much better just with a change of cam to a web 73, larger valves and a better exhaust. You will probbaly only pick up 5 hp with those few things. But it will run cooler and have even better throttle reposne. Add a bit more compression, a much better ignition and good tuning on the injection...and it makes 90+ easily. The stock 1.7 valves were a little small. The cam was ok...but did not give very good breathing. It was set up for timing issues and was a compromise. The web 73 keeps D-jettiming..but had more lift and duration. The stock domed pistons are getting hard to find. You may find it simply easier to have the tops of whatever plat top pistons you but...trimmed to make domes. Ray

[vwbill]

What about this setup? I get a rebuilt case with a 264degree dur/.402lift cam,case cut for 1800cc and get new 1800cc domed piston and cylinders with a pair of 44mmx38mm 1800cc heads and use my yellow D-jet injection system and stock exhaust? Would this setup work? Would it be a easy off the shelf bolt and run setup? It would be in the cost range,lol.
But so would a rebuilders 1700 stock setup and that would be a tested longblock! bill

[raygreenwood]

That cam will not work. It will screw with the vacuum signature and the D-jet will have problems. Its about intake valve opening point timing also. D-jet has specific timing. It can handle more than stock lift and duration, but if it changes the valve overlap too signifigantly...it changes the vacuum signature too much. What cam is that and who makes it? Iwould not use anything not made by webcam. The valve combo, piston and engine sizing sounds fine...but the stock exhaust will probably casue it to run hot...unless its something like an Ernst. A stock 1.8 is barely doable with the stock muffler. Ray

[vwbill]

CB Performance.
You can increase the power output of your 914 or T-2 engine with a new Eagle Cam. You can choose from four new exciting grinds. Acceleration, midrange punch, top end performance and all around increased driving pleasure are all parts of the program when you install a new Eagle Cam. Each cam is carefully ground on factory fresh ductile billets from computer-designed masters.
2201#
264 degree Duration, .402" lift. The Econo Cam improves mileage and adds to streetable use of dual carburetion.
So what is the webcam 73 specs? So this setup with a webcam (.430/255)or(.426/262) and stock exhaust wouldnt perform better then stock or work? Good compression ratio(domed)? bill

[raygreenwood]

I think the web 73 is 485 lift and 262 duration...with 108 lobe center. Thats not the most important part of it. The lobe center and the intake valve timing are....for D-jet. Its not that the Engle lift and duration is far off....its just that the timing is unknown. In any of that sales BS....did they happen to mention wether the cams were made for stock FI...or for the average carbed bus? Totally different cams between those two.

The stock exhaust is really only un-restrictive...when used on a 1.7 or 1.8 stock. If you install better cam, valves ect....you then need to be sure WHICH stock exhaust you buy. I have only seen one that is better flowin than stock. That would be the Ernst. It is pricey, hard to find. It flows about 15% better than stock. Not that the stock muffler would nit run well, but it will run hotter as Jake has noted. Otherwise...go for a basic thunderbird header or something.

You REALLY need to do some reading up on the aircooled technology forum about cam and lifter compatability problems. There are real problems out there with most lifters. Ray

[raygreenwood]

I just took a look at CB's ad. The first one on their list...notes exact stock replacement for all VW applications and Porsche 914. Just shows that their head is up their backside. The carbed bus engines and he fuel injected engines used a totally different cam. Now..the FI cam will run fine with carbs, D-jet and L-jet. The carbed cam will run well with L-jet and carbs. The D-jet had different intake valve opening points than the crabed cam. The L-jet used the same cam as the D-jet. Get a web cam...period. Ray

[vwbill]

http://www.webcaminc.net/volkswagen-auto.html
webcams