Actually was looking at this guy.
https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page ... prd362.htm
They sell the split-ring, gasket with screws separately.
https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page ... prd631.htm
https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page ... prd794.htm
According to their support guy "The diameter of the setup would be 3.25” that is correct.". That, unfortunately, is the size of the hole I had to make for the Holley hat.
I'm thinking this is a standard for the 6-bolt pattern. Should be useful when I get the new tank, but the hole I have in this tank is already too big.
Max
In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
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Max Welton
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
The guy with the tank is getting me a shipping quote.
Not very good at waiting ...
Max
Not very good at waiting ...
Max
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Max Welton
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
OK, the stuff from tanksinc arrived. The inside dia is 2.25", just enough to get the hydramat and the pump though. Since the tank already has a vent I will turn the vent in the cover into a passage for the pump wires. Seal it up with seam-sealer.
The pump will be situated head-down so the mat is on the bottom of the tank.
The tank is in the hands of greyhound.
Not very good at waiting.
Max
The pump will be situated head-down so the mat is on the bottom of the tank.
The tank is in the hands of greyhound.
Not very good at waiting.
Max
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GS guy
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
Good to see some forward progress Max! Any chance of re-working your existing tank to take this new flange assembly (before cutting up a replacement tank)? I was thinking of something like a short sump (shaped like a shortened tuna can) welded into your existing tank opening that matches the new flange? With a decent thick mounting surface (1/8" steel) - something that could provide a good flat/stiff surface to mount to. I know welding on "any" tank can be dicey but with a good internal cleaning, multiple cleanings? Creating a nice "flat" ring to mount the new flange to. Give it the best chance possible for a good long-term seal. If that ends up working you haven't lost too much (just time and $$$ - heh) and always have the spare tank to fall back on with plan-B if it doesn't.
Jeff
Jeff
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Max Welton
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
The problem with this tank is that the hole I made for the holly hanger is just about the size of the OD of the tanksinc cover.
And welding on it is out because I sealed the tank. I have no idea how the sealant will react to the heat of welding. Probably nothing good.
So ... starting over with a fresh tank.
Max
And welding on it is out because I sealed the tank. I have no idea how the sealant will react to the heat of welding. Probably nothing good.
So ... starting over with a fresh tank.
Max
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
Question: how close is the sealant to the hole? The reason is that maybe a heat absorbent of some kind (say material soaked in water for example) could be added to absorb the heat. It could also take away any potential of metal expansion or contraction during the welding process.Max Welton wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:29 pm The problem with this tank is that the hole I made for the holly hanger is just about the size of the OD of the tanksinc cover.
And welding on it is out because I sealed the tank. I have no idea how the sealant will react to the heat of welding. Probably nothing good.
So ... starting over with a fresh tank.
Max
The only thing I would worry about is the potential of welding contaminating falling into the tank.
Something to think about anyway.
Lee
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Max Welton
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
The sealant was applied before I drilled the hole. So it's right there. Maybe it could be TIGed. I would have to talk to my welder about that.
Max
Max
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Max Welton
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
On the other hand ... I might be able to bond a patch over that hole with seam sealant. The added feature is that it won't warp the metal.I need some metal ...
Max
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Max Welton
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
A trip to HomeDepot and ten bux later and I have a 12x12 piece of 22 gauge sheet, suitable for patch-making.
I decided to glue the split ring to the bottom of the patch. When that's cured I'll trim the patch and glue it to the bottom of the tank.
Max
I decided to glue the split ring to the bottom of the patch. When that's cured I'll trim the patch and glue it to the bottom of the tank.
Max
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
Worth a try, hope it works!
Lee
Lee
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Max Welton
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
Just a little update.
Turns out the seam-sealer takes a while to cure, especially when it's cold. I brought the patch inside yesterday, reapplied the sealant and left it overnight. This morning it seemed hard but when I took it out to the barn for some grinding, it popped off. It's 14 degrees out right now. So I'm trying again. I'll leave the screws in for a few days this time. I think when this goes on the tank itself I'll back it up with some sheet metal screws.
Max
Turns out the seam-sealer takes a while to cure, especially when it's cold. I brought the patch inside yesterday, reapplied the sealant and left it overnight. This morning it seemed hard but when I took it out to the barn for some grinding, it popped off. It's 14 degrees out right now. So I'm trying again. I'll leave the screws in for a few days this time. I think when this goes on the tank itself I'll back it up with some sheet metal screws.
Max
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Max Welton
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
Tank moved inside.
I'll give this at least a few days to cure.
Max
I'll give this at least a few days to cure.
Max
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Max Welton
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
So my attempts to save the first tank are being abandoned. It leaks around where I passed the wires through what was the vent. Even if I could get this sealed up, I don't trust it. And it's a mess.
The fresh tank has arrived. I welded up the stock outlet and put a gallon of Evapo-Rust in. The bottom didn't look bad at all when I looked in through the fuel gauge hole, but this will take care of whatever is there. The shop-light is to prevent the evapo-rust from freezing overnight.
The plan is do have the bottom of the tank modified to make a large enough flat area for this 12-bolt cover.
This is all taking a very long time.
Max
The fresh tank has arrived. I welded up the stock outlet and put a gallon of Evapo-Rust in. The bottom didn't look bad at all when I looked in through the fuel gauge hole, but this will take care of whatever is there. The shop-light is to prevent the evapo-rust from freezing overnight.
The plan is do have the bottom of the tank modified to make a large enough flat area for this 12-bolt cover.
This is all taking a very long time.
Max
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Max Welton
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
The new tank is at the sand-blaster and should be ready today or tomorrow. My welding guy (among many other things) is on-board for modifying the tank bottom so I can try the 12-bolt flange.
This post is a post-mortem of my initial attempt at an in-tank bottom-mount fuel pump.
1) The hydramat pickup is awesome. It does what Holly's video says it will do. Mine got fowled in the epoxy I used trying to get the forward cap to seal and was damaged trying to remove it. The integrity of that outside cover was breached. That breach allows air into the mat if it's exposed. That is about a $200 lesson.
2) Feeding the mat and pump through a 2-1/4" hole is possible but getting it all back out is not possible making that particular solution un-serviceable. In order to extract the perfectly good Walbro pump I hacked apart the now-useless tank.
3) When I did this tank originally I had the inside blasted and then I applied tank sealant. Most of it looks fine, but some is clearly separating. With the hydramat, loose sealant can't really plug the flow. I will be blasting the inside of the tank through the large hole needed for the 12-bolt flange ... but no more sealant.
4) Seam sealant does seem effective when used on a gas tank. But it can make a mess. If you're using seam sealant you've probably already made mistakes to get there.
5) My decision to do a bottom-mount in-tank system has been an exercise in prototyping. As such it has cost me a lot of time, pushing everything into the dead of winter in my un-heated barn. At this point it is an open question whether this car will be ready for the type-3 invasion in June.
As I used to tell my junior engineers, prototyping is a process of making lots of mistakes on some thing you would be well advised to throw away. Keep the lessons but toss the first attempt. That's what I doing here.
Also, when you are breaking new ground, there are by definition no patterns to follow. At best there are people who have tried before. Maybe they were right to quite, maybe they just weren't as persistent as success required.
So, enough of that. More when the tank has been modified for the 12-bolt flange.
Max
This post is a post-mortem of my initial attempt at an in-tank bottom-mount fuel pump.
1) The hydramat pickup is awesome. It does what Holly's video says it will do. Mine got fowled in the epoxy I used trying to get the forward cap to seal and was damaged trying to remove it. The integrity of that outside cover was breached. That breach allows air into the mat if it's exposed. That is about a $200 lesson.
2) Feeding the mat and pump through a 2-1/4" hole is possible but getting it all back out is not possible making that particular solution un-serviceable. In order to extract the perfectly good Walbro pump I hacked apart the now-useless tank.
3) When I did this tank originally I had the inside blasted and then I applied tank sealant. Most of it looks fine, but some is clearly separating. With the hydramat, loose sealant can't really plug the flow. I will be blasting the inside of the tank through the large hole needed for the 12-bolt flange ... but no more sealant.
4) Seam sealant does seem effective when used on a gas tank. But it can make a mess. If you're using seam sealant you've probably already made mistakes to get there.
5) My decision to do a bottom-mount in-tank system has been an exercise in prototyping. As such it has cost me a lot of time, pushing everything into the dead of winter in my un-heated barn. At this point it is an open question whether this car will be ready for the type-3 invasion in June.
As I used to tell my junior engineers, prototyping is a process of making lots of mistakes on some thing you would be well advised to throw away. Keep the lessons but toss the first attempt. That's what I doing here.
Also, when you are breaking new ground, there are by definition no patterns to follow. At best there are people who have tried before. Maybe they were right to quite, maybe they just weren't as persistent as success required.
So, enough of that. More when the tank has been modified for the 12-bolt flange.
Max
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: In Tank FI Pump Solutions?
Max, a question just out of interest.
The type of tank it looks like you are using are usually made from two formed pieces then bonded together. Could/can the two pieces be divided again safely, the work done then reassembled and sealed? Also, could the two-pieces of tank be bought before they are bonded together if needed?
Would this be easier and cheaper or just not available?
Lee
The type of tank it looks like you are using are usually made from two formed pieces then bonded together. Could/can the two pieces be divided again safely, the work done then reassembled and sealed? Also, could the two-pieces of tank be bought before they are bonded together if needed?
Would this be easier and cheaper or just not available?
Lee