Hey guys thanks for your thoughts. Here a recap of what Happened and what I've done so far:
Motor was running fine, just had new plugs & points, valves adjusted. After driving for 1 hr motor idle drops, wont respond to pedal unless floored. Limped home. Next morning started, idles rough, stumbles & dies.
1) Replaced CHT sensor, Now it fast idles great, strong & a tad too fast, 1 min later dies abruptly.
2) Replaced coil, volt reg., fuel pump relay......no change.
3) Replaced AFM, now it does not start, come close but no start, smells rich.
4) Reinstalled original AFM, now its back to starting good, running fast, dieing abruptly ~ 1min later.
Q- Check for loose connection at distributer trigger poin
A- Dont have one! L jet.
Q- Check the pressure sensor both electrically and for leaks.
A- You mean the press regulator?
Q- Check for voltage drops across connections from battery cables to battery posts
A- Motor turns over very well and runs, if batt. is bad that wouldn't happen, right?
Q- Check for broken, dirty or loose connections at starter terminal 50 (on the starter)
A- Solid
Q- also check for dirty or loose connections at the temp sensor.
A- Solid
Q- also check for dirty or loose connections at the temp sensor.
A- Will do
the dreaded relapse
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DeathBus
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:01 am
YesLongbeach412 wrote:
Q- Check the pressure sensor both electrically and for leaks.
A- You mean the press regulator?
Notice it says between cables and posts. Meaning make sure your cables are clean and good and tight. For an example, my wifes Cherokee would run Great at start up but when you let off the gas, it would die. I cleaned all the battery cables, replaced the battery and tigtened up the battery cables as good as possible, the problem went away.Longbeach412 wrote:
Q- Check for voltage drops across connections from battery cables to battery posts
A- Motor turns over very well and runs, if batt. is bad that wouldn't happen, right?
Also, you have not said if you have checked your fuel pressure, this could have alot to do with it.
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Longbeach412
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:34 am
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
AFM Changed something?
Hey, I think its funny that when you changed the AFM you did have some kinda change? I go along with the checking your pressure at the fuel rail!
I think its weird when you had the original issue it was driving pretty well then degraded to needing the full throttle to limp home! Like it was something that changed during that ride? MGVWFAN has a great understanding of the ECU/electrical! DeathBus has some great Ideas!
I think with the new info you have Ray might have some more great ideas where to check next! I dont have their knowledge! I just try to isolate it from fuel or electrical then move on to component test. I couldnt tell you how one problem could be acting on another reading to the ECU? I do like the Ray Fuel relay/pump power bypass alot! I Think with these cars you really have too check all the components with a meter and know what you have along with checking vacuum issues with a vacuum pump and observation! You are dealing with a motor in situation which can be very hard to deal with along with our cars being worked on by many people before and being 31 years old! Dont give up on her, you know how great these car can be! Sorry I cant help more! Bill
I think its weird when you had the original issue it was driving pretty well then degraded to needing the full throttle to limp home! Like it was something that changed during that ride? MGVWFAN has a great understanding of the ECU/electrical! DeathBus has some great Ideas!
I think with the new info you have Ray might have some more great ideas where to check next! I dont have their knowledge! I just try to isolate it from fuel or electrical then move on to component test. I couldnt tell you how one problem could be acting on another reading to the ECU? I do like the Ray Fuel relay/pump power bypass alot! I Think with these cars you really have too check all the components with a meter and know what you have along with checking vacuum issues with a vacuum pump and observation! You are dealing with a motor in situation which can be very hard to deal with along with our cars being worked on by many people before and being 31 years old! Dont give up on her, you know how great these car can be! Sorry I cant help more! Bill
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Longbeach412
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- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:34 am
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
A lot of this we have already gone over. Yes....poor grounds or power connections to ANY part that remotely touches the FI system can cause problems. Sinced there is like a 10 gauge wire that supplies fuel pump relay voltage at the battery...this can cause this.
Have you actually crawled undeneath and checked and cleaned teh connector on the fuel pump?
Also...and I know I have said this before. Stop swapping parts. Why?
For instance...if the real problem had been the CHT being out of whack...and say...giving you 20% more fuel on start up than you need.......and you swapped in a new AFM...with totally unknown adjustments...that say...are set to give you 20% less fuel, then the car would run normally and you would be happy and think that your hunch was right....until it dies when the CHT reached the lower range of operation. Then what?
NO PART...is known to be good until you have checked every aspect of it. New parts are especially suspect. With your FI relays, pop the cap and clean the contacts. Make sure that any realy...like the fuel pump and injection realys...that have brown ground wires, have awesome grounding and metal contact under the mounting tab.
Now lets think about this. Lets say....for the sake of argument...that both AFM's.....were identical in every way, including adjustment. So...why didn't the new one make it run the same? Well its very possible that the ACT of removing and replacing the AFM...was teh change.
a) do you have both ends of the boot between AFM and TB clamped?
b) are you absolutely possitive there is not a single vacuum leak or crack in that boot?
c) Is the hose from the auxiliary air regulator...perfectly sealed..tightly...to where it intersects this boot? NOTE: Just bypass that regulator for now...pull the hose and plug it with a fat bolt. That is all there is to it.
d) do you have a hose from teh oil breather that intersects the boot between the AFM and TB? iF so..is it ferfectly sealed.....also, is that little mushroom breather in the in the oil breather clean...open...and is the cork gasket on the oil breather sealed?
e) Have you very carefully inspected the terminal blades in the AFM for corrosion and tarnish....and have you checked each connector in the plug...to make sure that there is not exessive gap or sludge between them?
All of these things...will cause the exact problem you are having. It can happen, due to having the initial burst of air past the flap...move it far enough to start you...but then having vacuum leaks that cause it to drop back..or see-saw erractically.
Also, the two primary controllers of your air fuel mixture are the AFM...and the fuel pressure regulator......DO NOT SWAP IN A NEW REGULATOR....until you get a gauge on it. Swapping in a new regulator that does not solve the problem, can simply cause you to walk away from the fuel system and think that it may not be the problem. If its a pump with poor volume, dropping voltage, or a clogged sock filter....swapping the regulator will tell you nothing....about the pump.
Also...have you changed the o-ring behind the TB...and the manifold runner boots. These are generally shot on every vehicle. They cause just enough vacuum leak to run fuel pressure high at idle. Every 1 psi...is about 3% extra fuel pressure.
and again, have you adjusted the bypass screw at the AFM. Keep working...but don't guess at anything. Ray
Have you actually crawled undeneath and checked and cleaned teh connector on the fuel pump?
Also...and I know I have said this before. Stop swapping parts. Why?
For instance...if the real problem had been the CHT being out of whack...and say...giving you 20% more fuel on start up than you need.......and you swapped in a new AFM...with totally unknown adjustments...that say...are set to give you 20% less fuel, then the car would run normally and you would be happy and think that your hunch was right....until it dies when the CHT reached the lower range of operation. Then what?
NO PART...is known to be good until you have checked every aspect of it. New parts are especially suspect. With your FI relays, pop the cap and clean the contacts. Make sure that any realy...like the fuel pump and injection realys...that have brown ground wires, have awesome grounding and metal contact under the mounting tab.
Now lets think about this. Lets say....for the sake of argument...that both AFM's.....were identical in every way, including adjustment. So...why didn't the new one make it run the same? Well its very possible that the ACT of removing and replacing the AFM...was teh change.
a) do you have both ends of the boot between AFM and TB clamped?
b) are you absolutely possitive there is not a single vacuum leak or crack in that boot?
c) Is the hose from the auxiliary air regulator...perfectly sealed..tightly...to where it intersects this boot? NOTE: Just bypass that regulator for now...pull the hose and plug it with a fat bolt. That is all there is to it.
d) do you have a hose from teh oil breather that intersects the boot between the AFM and TB? iF so..is it ferfectly sealed.....also, is that little mushroom breather in the in the oil breather clean...open...and is the cork gasket on the oil breather sealed?
e) Have you very carefully inspected the terminal blades in the AFM for corrosion and tarnish....and have you checked each connector in the plug...to make sure that there is not exessive gap or sludge between them?
All of these things...will cause the exact problem you are having. It can happen, due to having the initial burst of air past the flap...move it far enough to start you...but then having vacuum leaks that cause it to drop back..or see-saw erractically.
Also, the two primary controllers of your air fuel mixture are the AFM...and the fuel pressure regulator......DO NOT SWAP IN A NEW REGULATOR....until you get a gauge on it. Swapping in a new regulator that does not solve the problem, can simply cause you to walk away from the fuel system and think that it may not be the problem. If its a pump with poor volume, dropping voltage, or a clogged sock filter....swapping the regulator will tell you nothing....about the pump.
Also...have you changed the o-ring behind the TB...and the manifold runner boots. These are generally shot on every vehicle. They cause just enough vacuum leak to run fuel pressure high at idle. Every 1 psi...is about 3% extra fuel pressure.
and again, have you adjusted the bypass screw at the AFM. Keep working...but don't guess at anything. Ray
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wildthings
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:42 am
I haven't read this whole thread so I may have missed something, but what I see is that the problem started after points, plugs and possibly other stuff was replaced. For me this is where I would start. You can never make a presumption that a new part is good, instead you should concider them untested and potentially unreliable. I'm with Ray, that you should quit swapping parts, how many bad parts have now been swapped onto your car? You probably started out with only one thing being wrong, and by now you may have several. 
I also see a reluctance to use a VOM and a pressure guage. You have stated that just because it starts you are presuming that wires and connections are okay, but you really don't know because you haven't put a meter on them. What does a pressure guage cost? I got mine from a plumbing supply house for 8 bucks or so, and it has lasted me for years. Buy one and use it.
I also see a reluctance to use a VOM and a pressure guage. You have stated that just because it starts you are presuming that wires and connections are okay, but you really don't know because you haven't put a meter on them. What does a pressure guage cost? I got mine from a plumbing supply house for 8 bucks or so, and it has lasted me for years. Buy one and use it.
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
L-jet jedi?
I learned that with the reman. dist I bought for my car that I assumed was now good,lol,and when I actually checked it out it had the wrong lower point trigger lobes! You really have to check everything on its own then test it in system also! It's hard to believe it till you read Ray describe how the littlest change in one part will effect the info getting to the ecu and then to other parts which makes you then think its something that isnt actually the cause but the effect! I guess we are working with a dynamic system for drivablity which has alot of varibles and balances to make all the conditions call running happen! It is a very delicate balance of those elements of air/fuel/timing/temp, ect... Just remember you could go and put a carb on her and get it to run but not like it was originally design too!
That is the reward in the end! You will soon be transformed into a L-jet injection master of thought,lol,or very P.O.d and have alot of test equipment and parts!! LOL! Thanks for letting us in on the class, Bill
That is the reward in the end! You will soon be transformed into a L-jet injection master of thought,lol,or very P.O.d and have alot of test equipment and parts!! LOL! Thanks for letting us in on the class, Bill
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Oh...and please understand...we arn't slapping your hands here. 
We wan't you to succeed....and I have been exactly where you are. Either something very strange...and even new to me is wrong (probably nothing complex or expensive...there just are not that many parts in there)....but usually something that looks so benign and perfect in evry way already, that your mind naturally just skims over it.
One thing to think about. Your symptoms....are very narrow in chracteristic. They are also....very....very...similar to what happens when trying to start... a) with the CHT unpluged...or b) with the AFM unplugged.
I keep going back to the CHT. Lets think of some unobvious problems with it.
So you have a new one, and its readings are within range. It is, as I noted...a modified ground. When the car is at its coldest, it has say...2500 ohms resistance to direct ground. That is also its richest setting.
When it is hot, it has perhaps...70-100 ohms resistance to direct ground. That is its leanest. Lets say...for the sake of argument, that all of the connections are good. The sensor body is screwed into thehead, the wire has no breaks and the female connector is factory crimped and new. What that leaves....is a bad ground. If the resistance between the sensor and the connector on it is 2300- 2500 ohms....cold, that means the sensor itself is probably good, But......if the metal surface it screws into.....has poor ground, technically....that can add to the resistance. Remember, this sensor .....at least I think so...must be grounded. I am not 100% sure that it must be grounded....but...if you ever remove the sensor all the way from the wire...by unplugging the wire, the identical symptoms to what you have....appear.
What is the condition of your grounding strap at the tail of the tranny? What is the condition of the body joint of the grounding strap on your battery? What is the ondition of the screw and ground wire that go to the fuel pump relay where it attaches to the frame of the car?
Also, it may be time to clean the AFM with a very high quality circuit board cleaner. Its also worth it, to carefully pry away the black cap on the AFM and cleran off the switches with circuit cleaner. Dry it thouroughly. Use some high temp silicone to seal the lid back on teh AFM.
Drop into home depot, get a brass 1/4" pipe thread nipple and a water pressure gauge that goes 0-40 or 50 psi in in one psi increments. That will be enough for now. Get two fuel injection clamps from a FLAPs and about 2 feet of fuel injection line. Hook this up and check your pressure. get back to us on this. Ray
We wan't you to succeed....and I have been exactly where you are. Either something very strange...and even new to me is wrong (probably nothing complex or expensive...there just are not that many parts in there)....but usually something that looks so benign and perfect in evry way already, that your mind naturally just skims over it.One thing to think about. Your symptoms....are very narrow in chracteristic. They are also....very....very...similar to what happens when trying to start... a) with the CHT unpluged...or b) with the AFM unplugged.
I keep going back to the CHT. Lets think of some unobvious problems with it.
So you have a new one, and its readings are within range. It is, as I noted...a modified ground. When the car is at its coldest, it has say...2500 ohms resistance to direct ground. That is also its richest setting.
When it is hot, it has perhaps...70-100 ohms resistance to direct ground. That is its leanest. Lets say...for the sake of argument, that all of the connections are good. The sensor body is screwed into thehead, the wire has no breaks and the female connector is factory crimped and new. What that leaves....is a bad ground. If the resistance between the sensor and the connector on it is 2300- 2500 ohms....cold, that means the sensor itself is probably good, But......if the metal surface it screws into.....has poor ground, technically....that can add to the resistance. Remember, this sensor .....at least I think so...must be grounded. I am not 100% sure that it must be grounded....but...if you ever remove the sensor all the way from the wire...by unplugging the wire, the identical symptoms to what you have....appear.
What is the condition of your grounding strap at the tail of the tranny? What is the condition of the body joint of the grounding strap on your battery? What is the ondition of the screw and ground wire that go to the fuel pump relay where it attaches to the frame of the car?
Also, it may be time to clean the AFM with a very high quality circuit board cleaner. Its also worth it, to carefully pry away the black cap on the AFM and cleran off the switches with circuit cleaner. Dry it thouroughly. Use some high temp silicone to seal the lid back on teh AFM.
Drop into home depot, get a brass 1/4" pipe thread nipple and a water pressure gauge that goes 0-40 or 50 psi in in one psi increments. That will be enough for now. Get two fuel injection clamps from a FLAPs and about 2 feet of fuel injection line. Hook this up and check your pressure. get back to us on this. Ray
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Longbeach412
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:34 am
Hey guys, I swear I know what yall are talking about, and even a slap on the hand wouldn't bother me a bit as long as it does me good and I learn something from it. Been around too long to be too proud!.....I'll address your thoughts and accusations 
, with my own thoughts and confessions: 1) when I say I replaced a part with another, Here is what I do; I take out the suspected part, replace with another and watch for change in performance. If none, I reinstall the old part back so I don't have to deal accumulating the variables.
2) The way this problem happened indicates to me a sudden and permanent failure of a component or a devation from its specs. That sounds to me that the likelyhood that this is being cause by a vacuum leak is low since the motor ran fine before and I didn't touch it. Keep in mind these are thoughts of an idiot but I have to vent them!
3) Nevertheless, I swear, I have checked every possible air connection/leak and every wire and ground. I keep checking the same sh#t over and over in case I missed something. I am getting so frustrated I just wanna crawl in a corner and wack my head on concrete slab!
4)Knoming its importance, I have checked the ground screw on the fuel pump relay every day!, it can't get any tighter. But I'll check the tranny ground strap.
5) I am getting another pressure gauge
6) I have checked the system volt and its connections and to boot, put the battery on a trickle cherger for the last 48hrs.
7) One thing I cheated on was the intake gasket. I couldn't get one from my parts guy so I reused the old one and gave the nuts an extra half turn.
Symptom remains the same, will do the AFM cleaning and system pressure monitor. As always thank you all for your inputs.
, with my own thoughts and confessions: 1) when I say I replaced a part with another, Here is what I do; I take out the suspected part, replace with another and watch for change in performance. If none, I reinstall the old part back so I don't have to deal accumulating the variables. 2) The way this problem happened indicates to me a sudden and permanent failure of a component or a devation from its specs. That sounds to me that the likelyhood that this is being cause by a vacuum leak is low since the motor ran fine before and I didn't touch it. Keep in mind these are thoughts of an idiot but I have to vent them!
3) Nevertheless, I swear, I have checked every possible air connection/leak and every wire and ground. I keep checking the same sh#t over and over in case I missed something. I am getting so frustrated I just wanna crawl in a corner and wack my head on concrete slab!
4)Knoming its importance, I have checked the ground screw on the fuel pump relay every day!, it can't get any tighter. But I'll check the tranny ground strap.
5) I am getting another pressure gauge
6) I have checked the system volt and its connections and to boot, put the battery on a trickle cherger for the last 48hrs.
7) One thing I cheated on was the intake gasket. I couldn't get one from my parts guy so I reused the old one and gave the nuts an extra half turn.
Symptom remains the same, will do the AFM cleaning and system pressure monitor. As always thank you all for your inputs.
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DeathBus
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:01 am
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wildthings
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:42 am
I would like to apologize for my previous post, I was a bit harsh. As I said I hadn't read the whole thread, I should have read it before I posted. It is obvious once I read the whole thread that you have been using a meter a lot. This is just happens to be one of my pet peeves, a lot of people waste mucho dollars by not using meters and guages.
What else did you change when you changed the spark plugs? I have seen and awful lot of new condensers, caps, rotors, and wires that were bad right out of the box. Even a lot of bad spark plugs. I cringe when I have to change some of these parts, my experience has been so bad.
What happens if you turn on the ignition for say two minutes before you try to start the engine. Will this keep it from starting? How long must you wait between times when it dies and when you can restart the car? Will it immediately restart after it messes up, or must you wait at least some set time, like a half hour?
Do your best to establish some sort of a pattern. Once it starts can you keep it running by switching the ignition off and on quickly. Does that delay the onset of the symptoms? Does it start to run bad as quickly if you have it rev'd up as it does at idle?
It sounds unlikely, and nobody has mentioned it yet, but is one of your valves hanging up for some reason? It does seem like this would happen in only a minute of running, but otherwise the symptoms wouldn't be so different. One stuck valve can affectively mess up the A/F ratio for all the other cylinders, stalling the engine. One bad plug or wire can sometimes have the same affect.
What else did you change when you changed the spark plugs? I have seen and awful lot of new condensers, caps, rotors, and wires that were bad right out of the box. Even a lot of bad spark plugs. I cringe when I have to change some of these parts, my experience has been so bad.
What happens if you turn on the ignition for say two minutes before you try to start the engine. Will this keep it from starting? How long must you wait between times when it dies and when you can restart the car? Will it immediately restart after it messes up, or must you wait at least some set time, like a half hour?
Do your best to establish some sort of a pattern. Once it starts can you keep it running by switching the ignition off and on quickly. Does that delay the onset of the symptoms? Does it start to run bad as quickly if you have it rev'd up as it does at idle?
It sounds unlikely, and nobody has mentioned it yet, but is one of your valves hanging up for some reason? It does seem like this would happen in only a minute of running, but otherwise the symptoms wouldn't be so different. One stuck valve can affectively mess up the A/F ratio for all the other cylinders, stalling the engine. One bad plug or wire can sometimes have the same affect.
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
The TB gasket can very well be it. Its still available through the dealer. use a very thin smear of permatex copper wether it is new or old....and let it harden overnight.
I know this is frustrating. Your method of swapping parts to simply detect a change...is not unsound. Just don't leave the part you swapped in...in the engine. Its best to stay with a known set of variables and discount them one by one, once you havee ascertained that what you have for a given part is no better or worse than your spare.
The fuel pump bypass, does technically bypass a part of the brain. It bypasses the flap cut-off switch only. But...what it does, is take the relays that may have potential connectivity problems out of the loop. You need two 8-10 foot lengths of proer gauge wire with good crimped on connectors. You will run them to the battery. Make sure of polarity at the pump. It is marked + and -.
Also, if certain parts....are not known by YOU to be new and properly installed, you cannot count on them to not be the problem just because the car used to run fine. These primarily include....intake seals, runner boots, TB seals, breather cork gasket, vacuum hoses and valve cover gaskets. A minor leak anywhere on these will do this.
If you did in fact just change points, plugs wires etc.....here are some things to check.
If you get it started, put the timing strobe on it. If the timing mark is jumping around like 5 degrees or so....that can cause this. Its usually slop in the springs and weight fulcrums. Also, a sticky advance plate can cause this. Also, a bad or frayed grounding wire between the two plates in your dizzy will cause his. If the signal wire from your FI to the coil...has a poor crimp or connection on it...it can cause this. If you have spark plug wires with poor connections or leaks in the insulation...it can cause this. Keep working....you are doing well to not have slashed you wrists. Been there (well....not slahing my wrists...but you know what I mean
). Ray
I know this is frustrating. Your method of swapping parts to simply detect a change...is not unsound. Just don't leave the part you swapped in...in the engine. Its best to stay with a known set of variables and discount them one by one, once you havee ascertained that what you have for a given part is no better or worse than your spare.
The fuel pump bypass, does technically bypass a part of the brain. It bypasses the flap cut-off switch only. But...what it does, is take the relays that may have potential connectivity problems out of the loop. You need two 8-10 foot lengths of proer gauge wire with good crimped on connectors. You will run them to the battery. Make sure of polarity at the pump. It is marked + and -.
Also, if certain parts....are not known by YOU to be new and properly installed, you cannot count on them to not be the problem just because the car used to run fine. These primarily include....intake seals, runner boots, TB seals, breather cork gasket, vacuum hoses and valve cover gaskets. A minor leak anywhere on these will do this.
If you did in fact just change points, plugs wires etc.....here are some things to check.
If you get it started, put the timing strobe on it. If the timing mark is jumping around like 5 degrees or so....that can cause this. Its usually slop in the springs and weight fulcrums. Also, a sticky advance plate can cause this. Also, a bad or frayed grounding wire between the two plates in your dizzy will cause his. If the signal wire from your FI to the coil...has a poor crimp or connection on it...it can cause this. If you have spark plug wires with poor connections or leaks in the insulation...it can cause this. Keep working....you are doing well to not have slashed you wrists. Been there (well....not slahing my wrists...but you know what I mean
). Ray-
raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Yup...no conflict here 
! It usually is something so simple as to not be noticed. I am serious about the grounding wire on the plates though. It will cause you to not get over five miles per hour at WOT....but it will start idle like a champ...then die the second you put your foot into it! And yes...it leaves a very rich smelling exhaust.
What happens, is that when the vacuum advance ...moves the upper plate...the frayed ground connection breaks ground......either killing the engine, or causing such poor contact that the sparks are either too small or intermittant. I discovered this...right after a routine tune up on my 73 D-injected type 3....years ago.
It was running like a top. I put in cap, rotor, points, condensor , plugs and wires. Drove great. On the way home though...I stopped at a light..and from then on, it would either die instantly...or with feathering the pedal...I could get her to 25 mph...then floor it to hit 30 in 3rd. It was popping...and blowing blue flame from the exhaust. A sure sign of unburnt fuel. I stopped about 20 times on the way home...,checking everything! I finally zapped myself on the coil...was so overheated from being out inb the heat...and so mad....I kicked the side of my little orange fastback.......and put a 6" dent in teh quater panel.....arrrrrrrggggh! When I finally got home ...and tore down the dizzy...i found the frayed ground wire. It probably got just enough jostleing during the points replacemnet to finish it off. Check that. Ray
! It usually is something so simple as to not be noticed. I am serious about the grounding wire on the plates though. It will cause you to not get over five miles per hour at WOT....but it will start idle like a champ...then die the second you put your foot into it! And yes...it leaves a very rich smelling exhaust.What happens, is that when the vacuum advance ...moves the upper plate...the frayed ground connection breaks ground......either killing the engine, or causing such poor contact that the sparks are either too small or intermittant. I discovered this...right after a routine tune up on my 73 D-injected type 3....years ago.
It was running like a top. I put in cap, rotor, points, condensor , plugs and wires. Drove great. On the way home though...I stopped at a light..and from then on, it would either die instantly...or with feathering the pedal...I could get her to 25 mph...then floor it to hit 30 in 3rd. It was popping...and blowing blue flame from the exhaust. A sure sign of unburnt fuel. I stopped about 20 times on the way home...,checking everything! I finally zapped myself on the coil...was so overheated from being out inb the heat...and so mad....I kicked the side of my little orange fastback.......and put a 6" dent in teh quater panel.....arrrrrrrggggh! When I finally got home ...and tore down the dizzy...i found the frayed ground wire. It probably got just enough jostleing during the points replacemnet to finish it off. Check that. Ray