The "Bring it Back" 71 Super Vert Thread

[Marc]

OK. I've been downing some adult beverages but per my calculations a 6½" ET50 rim will have a backspace of 5.46". Anything past about 4-1/8" will interfere at full lock on the front, requiring that you crank in on the Pitman arm stop bolts and enlarge your turning circle. At about 4½" backspace it's not too objectionable but I wouldn't want to go more, so yes, you'd need a ~1" spacer. The Honda bolt circle is 4x100mm but you can buy rotors and drums already threaded to that. I wouldn't want to use pass-through spacers that thick with lug bolts, though, so that'd mean ponying up for some bolt-on spacers. The result would be no better IMHO than just using wheel adapters, and adapters would be a far smaller investment.

[mountainkowboy]

Thanks Marc, but the CR-V is 5x114.5 or 5x4.5"....same bolt as Ford and Jeep. I haven't been able to find any adaptors that are made in that configuration. I have found rear drums that are drilled that way, but haven't been able to find rotors.

[mountainkowboy]

Well...........the green unmolested 71 I've been trying to get appears to be un-obtainium.

I found another one local that I got for $225.00, no title..........there are a lot of parts that I can use, hood, German signal switch, nicer speedo, the front seat bases are in better condition than the verts, the pan is absolutely perfect........no rust anywhere, the wire harness is un-molested and not painted red, wiper motor and switch are better, a complete and working emergency switch. I believe that with some cutting and welding I can get some good rear fenders from what I have (still looking for a set of good German ones). The front fenders are nice and I think the bumpers are savable. I will save the front lower control arms, sway bar, springs, and whatever else I find in the frontend to be in good condition for spares. Maybe the rear torsion bars plates, the trailing arms have been cut and there are no rear hubs, it came with a good transmission though. The rest of it will be parted out and whats left will be scrapped.

All In all I'm pretty happy with my find.....................just the German pan halfs made it worth it to me

[Marc]

You can get adapters made in nearly any combination imaginable...just bring money. http://www.motorsport-tech.com/
4-lug to 5-lug adapters are usually pretty sketchy, though - there's often just not enough real estate for nine holes. 4x130 to 5x130 (Porsche) works out OK, since they can have one long pass-through stud. The 4x130mm to 5x4¾" (Chev) adapters used a bizarre eccentric pass-through stud which was left loose in the drum so it could be indexed so as to match up with one hole in the wheel. They worked, but it was an inelegant solution. The stud was offset by ~4.7mm; to do the same thing with a "Ford" circle it would have to be offset by more than 7.8mm (over half the diameter of the stud...eeewwww). The better approach would be a two-piece adapter, but I doubt that one could be built less than ~1½" thick.
You could of course buy "blank" aftermarket drums/rotors and have them drilled to 5x4½" for 12mm lugbolts, and use some 1" bolt-on spacers: http://prowheeladapters.com/wheel-adapt ... acers.html (same outfit makes 1¼" thick ones too, or you could add thin pass-through spacers if needed - they come in 3, 4, 5, and 6mm thicknesses so you could fine-tune the fit.). I'm assuming that the CRV rims are intended for 12mm studs.
OR if 1¼" is the thickness you need, buy the drums/rotors which are already drilled to 5x4¾" and some commonly-available Ford-to-Chev adapters: http://prowheeladapters.com/wheel-adapt ... pters.html If the drums come with 14mm threads, these spacers should bolt up OK with the 14mm VW lug bolts...you might need to enlarge the holes slightly, and there are 14mm lugbolts available - used on some Audis - with a 17mm hex-head if more socket clearance were needed.

...if it were me, though, I'd use drums/rotors that are drilled 5x130, even if it meant spending a bit more to get some custom 5x130mm to 5x4½" spacers made up. IMHO it'd be better to have the car ready to accept Porsche rims in the future, rather than Ford or Chev...and the resale market for them would probably be bigger should you ever go back to stock.

[mountainkowboy]

I actually found someone who makes them.....SoCal Imports has drums and rotors drilled for Chevy/Ford pattern

[Marc]

I did see those when they first started offering them, but I had forgotten about them. CIP1 sells something similar, with dual Porsche/Chev patterns. I haven't heard from anyone who's used either of `em. Those would have an advantage at resale time due to the dual bolt pattern. Looking at the pictures at SoCal's site it appears that the Chev-pattern holes are smaller than the Ford-pattern holes; since Chev uses 7/16" studs and Ford uses ½" that would make sense, but also implies that you need to find the correct press-in studs and install them...more info is needed, the text in their description drops off without fully explaining, but I suspect that they are not tapped: "Our drums and rotors can be custome drilled and tapped or studded fo"
You're still going to need 1" to 1¼" spacers for the CRV rims if my numbers are right...

[mountainkowboy]

Found a set on real nice German rear fenders today..................................$100.00...............SCORE!

[mountainkowboy]

Started the tear down of the rear of Vivian...........what a can of worms that I opened up!!!!

She has been hit......big surprise, and not repaired so well. Good thing I have a decent parts car.





AND there was some VERY cleverly hidden rust issues. I noticed a little peeling and investigated.



That's what it looked like before I started tearing the passenger side apart.



Now I'm to understand that VW shipped a sedan to Karmann for it to be built into a convertible....right? So the bottom of the body on the convertible is exactly the same as the sedan? So I can cut all the repair panels off of my parts sedan.

[mountainkowboy]

Due to title issues, HUGE back fee's, and time constraints........................

Vivian is back on top of the repair list. I'm doing a pan swap with the sedan since its perfect. I have done some VERY extensive investigation on her and her bones are solid. Heck all the pan bolts came right out....that's more than I can say about the sedan. I will not be doing the rust repair for now, my main push is to get her back on the road and drivable. That means, front suspension redone, trans replaced, pan swap, and wiring replaced. I will basically cut the bottom 3rd off the sedan for the repair of the 1/4 panels, rear firewall, heater channels, and whatever else I find that needs to be replaced and save/sell the rest.

I'm still planning on the German look and it being built for handling and.....surprising tuners. After the move and the rust repair I'm thinkin a stout 1776 or a 1904 is next up, haven't decided yet either way it will have thick wall 90.5's

I've already got both bodies unbolted from the pans and started stripping them, fenders, decklids, hoods, fuel tank, windows, doors on the sedan, and top on the vert. I'm gunna leave the doors on the vert and hopefully be able to lift the body off as a unit, maybe pickup one of those adjustable load clamps or weld in a stiffener for the job. Needless to say there will be lots of pics and questions.

[mountainkowboy]

So the bugs have swapped spots and Vivian is in the "working" area. So I hooked up the hoist to see how easy/hard it will be to get the vert body off. I lifted it up and the pan came with it, I'm thinkin its just stuck..........wrong. Then I remembered to 2 bolts that go into the wishbone, OK,OK its been 20 years since I pulled a body.



So its ready to pull off the pan, but as my luck goes, we are getting/expecting weather today, so its blowin like hell and I will have to wait for a day or so to get the body off. There is very little flex in it when lifting it and the doors still open and close without issue....this might go pretty easy.....famous last words. I have these furniture dollies from HF, remove the wheels and set it on them, to get the pan out from under the body. That way I don't have to lift the body very high to do the swap. I also found that in the last storm....Vivian leaks......ALOT...LOL.

Ready for the storm



KEEP PLOWING AHEAD

[Ol'fogasaurus]

For a sedan: 9 down each side, 4 across the rear, 4 from underneath in the front cross piece and one on each side to the rear shock mount tower.

[mountainkowboy]

Yea......I found the ones I missed

[mountainkowboy]

Got the front suspension off today.

It has new ball joints, outer tie rod ends, and dampner. Funny how they missed the destroyed cross link and inside tie rod ends, along with the trashed control arm bushings. I could rotate the arm at least 45* in the mount......lol

[mountainkowboy]

So after lunch I got ambitious. For those who want to know...the vert body will lift right off the pan with no added supports. I could have left the rear fenders on also, but they were trash.

[mountainkowboy]

Spent the day getting the Sedan apart and the pan out from under it. I am REALLY PLEASED with this pan, there is a little surface rust around the battery area, but other than that and some dents that I need to pound out...its pristine! The gasket is even in great shape, I think that a little sealant and its ready to mount up. Also the steering system on the Sedan is in excellent condition, cross link, tie rod ends, steering box, pretty much everything. The strut inserts are toast along with the ball joints, but the ones on the vert were fairly new. It's looking like I need to get strut inserts only, and maybe an idler bushing. I already have all new bushings for the control arms and swaybar.

Moving right along.

Also if anyone is looking for some Sedan body parts, let me know. Doors, glass (all are good), spare tire well, crescent vent rot area. I'm keeping the lower rear 1/4's, firewall, wiring, and heater channels.