2270cc type 4 EFI Turbo: my first engine build

[split1950]

I'm just ordering some fittings for my turbo and have come up on a few issues, anyone got any type 4 experience here?;

1. The -AN10 turbo oil drain I had originally planned on using was by feeding back to the oil filler block off plate, but I think the pipe will go slightly uphill. I assume this is no good as this is not gravity? I'm running dry sump so I'm wondering if I can get away with that as there is some suction in the crank case?
2. I thought about going in somehow at the oil strainer cover as I'm running dry sump the scavenge is higher volume than the oil feed, so will I get away with the turbo oil return being below the oil level (I assume dry sump isn't really dry and still has some oil in the bottom of it) helped by the increased pick up suction from the scavenge?
3. My EFR7168 has an Aluminium centre housing and ceramic ball bearings, Borg says it must be water cooled. Bugger. Using the water system from my chargecooler is dumb and going to ruin the performance of it by heating the water? I think I probably should have a separate water cooling system / radiator / pump for cooling the turbo centre housing?

What do you know?! Thanks!

Uphill is no good of course, I used the (old BAS) elongated oil strainer ("tuna can") for return as I run dry sump as well. Its the lowest part of the engine by far. Worked very well. I did use AN12, so if you can...bigger IS better as far as oil return lines go.

Watercooling the center section is overrated imo
But seriously, I run the EFR7670 version with cast iron center and same ceramic ball bearings and mine has the same 'advise' from Borg. I discarded it (I have with all other turbo's as well, inclusing Garrett's GT-3076R): all worked fine without it. In fact, floating bearing turbo's don't need it from the factory and do not even have a provision for it, like the EFR7670''s predecessor: the S200-7670 I ran before.
My thinking is that the ball bearing versions produce even less heat in the bearing section and the alu centers cool themselves (since alu) even better too. So why would they need it now?
YMMV however

Tuna can? I can imagine what you mean, the strainer moves down, then you have to extend the oil pickup tube too I guess? Bascially like those type 1 mini sump extensions you see from time to time? Then put the AN fitting in the side of the tuna can. GREAT IDEA, THANKS! I'd better have a Tuna sandwich for dinner tonight then

Lol I wondered about the water cooling too, I suppose Aluminium expands a lot more than steel when heated, but then surely the oil must cool the housing. I suspect as long as I let the engine idle before shutdown I'll be alright (Borg would of course play it safe to allow for lack of mechanical sympathy).

Thanks as always dude for your help

[split1950]

Things have been a bit slow whilst I wait for the body repairs to get finished and can do the trial fit of the engine to confirm my exhaust header fits.
So I've done my petrol tank, fitted a FI return and gauge sender plate, then painted it.
First filler, etch the bare bits and highbuild, then blocked back the guide coat

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Then second prime, here it is finished in 800 ready for 2K base coat

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Painted and 2K cleared

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Top side (still gun finish, need to leave it a few weeks before colour sanding)

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I also bought a mini cam sync from Mario @ the dub shop.
Didn't like the look with my OEM distribuitor clamp so made this 3D model that my good friend is CNC'ing for me out of billet

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Should look much better!
Next I'm going to try to model a "Tuna can" for the turbo oil return........

[andy198712]

Wow, that tank looks amazing!

[split1950]

Thanks. Normally I'd put the clear on a bit thicker and get a better gun finish but it's getting cold here so drying takes longer and it might sag or run off the top. There's 3.5 coats on there so easy to sand to a mirror finish.

[greggholmes]

epic work!!

[split1950]

As I'm still waiting for the body repairs to be done I've been struggling to make progress but I have made some;
Chopped my intercooler core and folded up the sheet for the water jacket

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My friend is Tig welding it up for me with some AN-12 water fittings for the pump.
For the inlet I've got some 2.25" Ali tube and a plan, I just need the dimension from the gearbox bell housing up too the bottom of the vent (under the rear window) so I can figure out if it'll fit vertically. I hope so as the pipes to the TBs will be much better / equal length.
Talking of TBs

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Had a spare hour on Saturday so polished the rails and fitted the AN-8 fittings

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Got these Siemens 107962 630cc injectors

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The body is progressing

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Fingers crossed this momentum continues into paint soon.

[Wally]

Wow!! How much hp are you targeting?

Asking since although the 630cc Siemens are a very nice injector, but they have their limits on an aircooled..

[split1950]

I was hoping for 300 to 400
Are they too small?
I originally thought about 1000cc Bosch but was worried off boost would be horrible

[buguy]

I agree. I maxed out 440cc (up to almost 113% DC) on my dead stock turbo 1600. I recently put 850cc injectors on and I think the most I've seen was less than 60% DC. I'm usually around 28 psi so it has to be less than 250hp. You might get 300hp out of them though.

[split1950]

I read you can up the pressure from 3 bar 630cc to 4 bar and get more like 800cc I'd need to check the figures on that though.
I also worried about clearance to the body if I used bigger ones.
I can always change them later if necessary. Not ideal but they were £175 so also not the end of the world.
I do appreciate the heads up tho!

[Clonebug]

630cc injectors should be good for 408 crank hp at 85% DC. About 480 hp at 100% DC.
It will take a bit to get up there. If you use E85 it might take a little less time.

[buguy]

My bad. I forgot to mention I was on E85. Although I don't know how accurate those calculators are. For me, it said even with E85 my 440cc injectors should be making 300 hp when I was at 113 DC. Pretty sure I wasn't making 300!
It also says with the 850's I have now at 60% DC I should be making 300 hp. Still no way I'm making that!

[Wally]

My personal experience with the Siemens 630cc on gasoline was about 350hp (crank) before they got too close to too high duty cycles.
Higher fuel pressure helps a little but that also has its limits.
My 2200cc T4 ran always very well on 900RPM idle with ID1000's, but ID injectors are more expensive (for a reason )
Somehow todays gasoline, even without any Ethanol content just needs a little more volume to get to the same AFR compared to years ago. Thats also why all carbs, calibrated in the 70's as stock, now show too high AFR's on stock engines. It all means, there are more reasons why we need bigger injectors then you would think or what the calculation programs say you need.

For your intentions, I agree, 850's would seem best middle ground, but you have these now, so for now see what you get as IDC's at 1.0 bar boost and go from there.

[split1950]

Wally I probably should have asked you before I bought them! Never mind I still have a long way to go before I'm going to run into their limitations. I'll be very happy when those are the kind of problems I have lol


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[buguy]

Car looks great. Not easy to do that well with bare metal.