411/412 Engine Differences to T2

MNAirHead · Post by **MNAirHead** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:28 pm

Compared to a bus engine.. are there any differences between a 411/412 EFI Engine?

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:41 pm

Many. The bus uses differnt sheet metal and fan. Also, internally, the 1.7L bus had different pistons...dished in the case of the 1.7 bus...domed for the 411/412. The 1.8 fuel injection in the 412 also had different compression than the 1.8 bus. I "think" the carbed bus also used a different cam on the 1.7. Different distributors and timing specs. Take a look at Tunas site. Ray

vwfye · Post by **vwfye** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:49 am

did the bus and 412 use a different alternator pulley? my 412 alternator pulley is 1 full inch farther rearward than my fan. i know the fan is original to the car, but the alternator is not. if it is a bus alternator and pulley, would that cause my alignment issue?

MNAirHead · Post by **MNAirHead** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:04 am

So a 411/412 would have a tad bit more power?

Looking to learn.

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:29 am

Yes, but that can be easily viewed on the different engine codes on i.e. Tuna's list.

AFAIK, busses never had the D-jetronic anyways.

Oil filler extensions/locations come to mind as well.

wildthings · Post by **wildthings** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:54 am

The engines can pretty well be swapped from one type of vehicle to another without harm with the possible exception of that the domed pistoned 1700 should be used with caution in a bus.

The 1800 engine that has been residing in my bus for nearly the last two decades started life in a 412. I took it apart when I first got it and reringed it but I do not remember what pistons it had. It has always run cool and strong in the bus.

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:27 pm

I always liked the 1800 Ljet setup. I had that in my first 412 but have the 1700 djet know and my brother's T3 has the djet 1600. I am sure once you get any engine setup right you should be happy and it seems a lot of people go for the 2.0L 914 style replacement. I think the compression is better on the 1.7L domies but if you are going for that get the peices to Jake so you start balanced and sweet! I really liked my 1.8L with Ljet that had the heads polished for it's reliability! I can see why some people will go to dual carb sets and a 2.0L because of the options and availability. You would still need to use the same flywheel again I think. I think sometime time is a issue so what is available now is what you have to use if you want to have a driver then you could still gather parts and rebuild the orginal setup. I just like to go with the setup the car came with because of all the work to change out. But I guess a 2.0L dual carber is a fast fit and you can just remove or tuck away the rest of the FI setup for later? My brother Custom Ghost t3 squareback has a dual carb setup and it does get up and move!! Did anyone see the sweet gray bug in the pic area? Now that is a sweet German engine with the Porsche fan!! Good luck with your project! Bill
p.s VWFye could you shem the pullleys to get it closer??

vwfye · Post by **vwfye** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:54 pm

shimming would take me the wrong direction bill.

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:27 am

Hey VwFye, how can the alt. pulley be a inch to the back? Wouldn't the pulley be behind the alt. front tin and be impossible to put the belt on? If the fan was too far foward wouldn't the fan be hitting the plastic shroud that mounts around it? I only have about a 1/8" gap between the fan and the plastic part of the rubber boot mount. Something must be mounted wrong... So you are saying the body width of the alt. might be different from a stock alt.? Can you read the bosch numbers from below? You could look it up and chk.. So the only things you are dealing with is the fan housing to motor, fan to crank, alt. to fan housing and alt. pulley to alt.? There is that plastic 1/2" seal ring spacer peice that is between the alt. front and the alt. tin. but that shouldn't change the pivot bracket of the alt. to fan housing...and I thought that bracket U peice that mounts to the fan housing had two holes that were equal spacing... I think the pulleys were the same since I looked in the bus green book and it looks the same as mine! Sounds like a Ray or Jake ?? Any pics?? Sorry No help!! bill

vwfye · Post by **vwfye** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:37 pm

when i say one inch back (back is back and front is front) i really mean one inch back. the old belt that stayed on the engine for the 5k miles i've owned it and how every many years prior to that must have been much more flexible than the new belt. the new belt lasted less than 1/2 mile before it tossed. i still can't find any part of the alternator mounts that look incorrect, but i have nothing for visual comparison.

wildthings · Post by **wildthings** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:07 pm

Someone must have a bus down in that part of Oregon for you to take a peek at. I don't think there is anything much different in the alternator mounting between a Type 4 and a T4 powered bus.

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:08 pm

Hey Vwfye, I'll take pics of my setup and email them since I can never get them to post! I'll send a scan of the bus book too... So you are saying the alt. pulley is sticking out from the alt. so it is like when on a bug if you use the big body gen. and it is at a angle to the crack pulley! I had that on my 70 bus once when I got the gen with a different length and the belt would want to flip inside out by catching the pulley edge! So you have pulled the alt. pulley to see if it is on the key wrong some how...
There is that spacer looking part of the front alt. pulley but I thought it was part of that peice.... Pics heading your way! sorry it has been too long since I did the rebuild to remember! Bill

p.s. edit sorry can't find your email address..???

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:31 am

Hey Vwfye, try this link to my msn group.. I tried to post some pics..

http://groups.msn.com/vw412/shoebox.msnw

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:26 pm

Hey Vwfye, were the pics any help?? bill

vwfye · Post by **vwfye** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:27 pm

just got home... i will look at the pics

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411/412 Engine Differences to T2

411/412 Engine Differences to T2

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