228 flywheel+wbx pp into 412 tranny

func412 · Post by **func412** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:35 am

Has anyone tried this? Is it possible to fit it in?

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:16 am

Hmmm, I have those parts sitting in the garage, I'll check...

func412 · Post by **func412** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:18 am

Thanks. I´ve got those parts too, but I´m not near the garage for a week and the idea just came in to my mind... to use those parts and make a custom 228mm clutch disc.

I can check this myself also, I was just thinking if someone has already done that =).

func412 · Post by **func412** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:22 am

One Finnish guy has done this succesfully. He modified a disk using 412 center and rest of the disc came from Audi. So this modification seems to be possible.

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:59 am

func412 wrote: He modified a disk using 412 center and rest of the disc came from Audi.

So you need a custom disk and not many companies can/will do this. I 've asked around over here, but came up empty...

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:12 pm

Its the same problem here as well. Most clutch rebuilding shops are pretty low tech actually. They don't "make " anything. They simply replace parts like linings and ...even rarer....a center hub on a stamped disc.
I have found them very very afraid of de-riveting one hub and riveting on another. In most places they don't d riveting unless they have to. They simply re-blank all of the exiting rivets, check for cracks and straightness and slap on new friction material.

But...bear this in mind, most if not all of the 411/412 discs I have seen on our continent are solid center...not spring. I have never actually seen a spring center 411/412 clutch disc.
And....The 210 and the 215 take the same exact center plate. If you will notice.....the metal plate sandwiched between the friction surfaces on the 215 is recessed in...about 2.5mm....

from the outer perimeter. Its the same disc with larger diameter frictin material riveted on. It worked fine in that configuration.

If you did the same thing for a 228...it would 7.5mm further recessed from the edge. It might be possible to do this.
If not...you best bet if to get a solid 228 disc......grind the rivets off the center hub...and re-rivet the 411/412 hub to the new 228 center hub. At that pint...I would think it would also be safer to spot weld around the hub to the disc. Just some thoughts. Ray

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:33 pm

raygreenwood wrote: I have never actually seen a spring center 411/412 clutch disc.
Ray

I actually have one of those lying right here for the new 2056cc engine

Just mentioning this so you know they exist

func412 · Post by **func412** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:38 am

Yes, the flywheel fits in with the WBX pressureplate, with minor reaming.
I heard that the custom disc has been made with 412 solid center and the 228mm Audi disc parts were bolt on to the original 412 center part holes. That´s amazing if that is true, but I´ll make more reserch about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ8uukUGkXE

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:06 am

func412 wrote:. That´s amazing if that is true, but I´ll make more reserch about this.

Please do! Interesting indeed.

func412 · Post by **func412** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:08 am

I got more information today, very interesting indeed. Now the slipping clutch and poor flywheels are history

I´ll quote this information from www.fvwa.fi (Finnish vokswagen association) Forum, freely translatedinto English.

Jouko Salo wrote: Project went this way:

1. I bought Audi clucth disc, "Luk" Brand. It the package I found numbers 018-323041110 and 018-HB6463. In the center of that disc was numbers 018-323 0411 11.

2. The Rivets of both discs were grinded away carefully not harming the parts which were going to be reused. Both discs rivet spacing were exactly the same.

3. You need 16 pieces of 5 mm steelrivets to put a 412 center into Audi disc. I made a substantial base to bench wise from steel, where I grinded a small pit for rivet. The rivet was assembled with a help with my friend by heating up the rivet red-hot on top of that base, put the parts together and finally hit that rivet in place with proper arbor and hammer. After that I grinded the extra material away from the side rivet was hit by the hammer, only what was needed.

4. The disc needed no balancing, when I took it to machinery.

Here´s some pictures that Jouko sent me today:

VW type 4 disc and Audi center

Audi center on top of type 4 disc

Type 4 center mounted into Audi disc, driven 10 000 km (Side 1)

Type 4 center mounted into Audi disc, driven 10 000 km (Side 2)

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:29 am

Nice job!!

Better to find an old, used 411/12 disk with a spring center perhaps?

func412 · Post by **func412** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:04 am

I don´t know, maybe bigger disc would be more comfortable that way. But this disc center without springs has been working fine as well.

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:35 pm

Thats good to know, as spring loaded disks are indeed very rare, especially used ones

Richie · Post by **Richie** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:08 am

Hello,

Very clever, nice job!
Any specific Audi type?
You can find 228mm discs on a Audi 100 from 1977 up to the A4 from 2003.
Or are they all the same?

Cheers,
Richard

func412 · Post by **func412** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:46 am

I don´t know specific audi, but I heard that it is a disc for audi A4, model 2000 or near that. I´ll go to local spare part supplier and ask that info soon.