Early vs. Late Fuel Senders

[Bill K.]

I'm going to clean and seal the fuel tank in preparation for a new engine. I have early and late tanks to choose from:
* Early tank - round sender secured to tank by 6 screws, 1 wire
* Late tank ('74) - bent arm sender attached to tank with tangs, 2 wires

My '73 Coupe has the early tank with 1 wire sender and no voltage vibrator for the fuel gauge.

I've read that a Type 3 sender can be used for the early tank and a modified Super Beetle sender can be used for the late tank.

Can the early fuel gauge have a voltage vibrator added for use with a late ('74) sender? Then add a ground wire on the '74 sender back to the gauge ground?

What's involved modifying the Super sender for the '74 tank?

Please advise on best choice of tank with long-term servicability and parts availability in mind.

[ubercrap]

Early and late tanks have the top access plate in a different location- I wouldn't consider them interchangeable without some cutting/welding work.

[Bill K.]

That makes it an easy choice. Thanks

Does anyone need a nice '74 fuel tank? I have one for sale...

[Wally]

Does anyone need a nice '74 fuel tank? I have one for sale...

Nah, but if you have a good '74 original sender, I am very interested

I tried the superbeetle sender modification, but had no luck with that Was probably my own fault, but it was a pain and I messed up the new sender. New german beetle ones are very expensive on top of that..

[albert]

hy,,wallie,,, i have web adress from siemen,, they build tooday many fuiel sender in the tube or with the flot,, and one thing is important in that,, is the ..holms ,,résistances in the fuel sender ,,i have read that last week ,,but they sale many model (20) in the tube ,,20to200 holms ,,or 100 to 300 holms ,,we can buy the exact model for the 412 to the condition if we know the résistance for the 412 ,, the résistance wend the tank is empty or wend she is full,, that is the most important beefore to buy a fuel sender ,,albert

[Wally]

Thanks for that info Albert, but unfortunately, I don't know the resistance. I think its the same for beetle late model though. The key however is where to the float elemant is connected to the metering unit with respect to the bajonet connection fitting of the whole sender. The shape of the arm and float element is critical too.
In short, I don't think a general product will work properly here..., but I am always hoping to be proved wrong

[albert]

oh,, wally,, i have my spare tank,,with the sender in ,, if you have need the exact résistance on the sender ,,i can take that toomorrow,, and if you have need to see the diagram for the sender,, you can go to see ,,,type3&4 vw club ,,,in uk ,,they show the picture ,, and no , they are différent on the type 1 1973 -74 ,, the résistance inside is différent ,, i have see that last week ,, siemen,s geeve all the fuel sender résistances ,,for différent model,,and they show the tech for the adjustment in her topic ,, i have keep this ,,adress last week in my ,,cpu,, but i can do my best for to find back ,,plus if my mémory is good ,bughouse , sale that for the type 4 ,, if you have need ,,,albert

[albert]

and ,,wally,, on the 412 ,, you d,t have the float with long arm,, that is a float on 2 électric wire ,, the float slide on this 2 wire ( résistive wire ) ,, and we d,t can adjust mécanictly,, only by the guage with a small screw ,in the dash ,and if you adjust that ,, never use stell screw driver ,, only plastic screw driver ,, the madgnétic on the stell screw driver can scrap the guage ,, by électrostatic power , albert

[albert]

wally ,,here is only one small example for the fuel sender,only tubular ,for the kombi,,67 to 81 ,,, the sender is 188 m.m. of 6 ohms to 69 ohms for a tank of 43 liters,, for the kombi 4-83 to 4-87 the sender is 175 m.m. ,,,for the kombi 9-81 to 04-83 the sender is 216 m.m. for 43 liters 4 ohms to 76 ohms ,,and for the kombi 67 to 81 for tank of 43 liters ,,6 ohms to 69 ohms ,, you see now for what reason we d,t can put a différent sender on the 412 ,, we have many graduation on the sender for différent tank,plus the dash guage is in proportion with the sender , but if we have the good dimention and the good résistance we are ok,, albert

[Bill K.]

Does anyone need a nice '74 fuel tank? I have one for sale...

Nah, but if you have a good '74 original sender, I am very interested

I tried the superbeetle sender modification, but had no luck with that Was probably my own fault, but it was a pain and I messed up the new sender. New german beetle ones are very expensive on top of that..

I've got you covered Walter. After cleaning the '74 sender, it was intermittent especially when wiggled. I took it apart and noticed the slop in the pivot pin for the arm was causing the reader arm to short on the windings as the arm wiggled side to side. Replacing the pivot pin pre-load spring with a shortened one from a ball point pen removed the slop and results in smooth readings - ~9 ohm full, ~75 ohm empty. I'll pm you with shipping cost.

A clean resistance reading could not be made on the early spare tube sender.

Early tube sender (411-919-049) on left, '74 sender (411-919-051A) on right.




Post 411

[albert]

bill,, there is the ,,simens ,, résistance for the twits lock model,,for 40 liters 33 ohlm full to 255 ohlms empty for the bolt on model ( in a tube )for 40 liters tank ( float model ),5 ohlms to 33 ohlm,, for the model 55 liters of gas ,( with float ),twits lock model 33 ohlm to 255 ohlm ,, siemens sale many model for ,,vw,,with différent twits lock ,, old stile and new stile , the most important take the good model,,albert

[albert]

bill..for the model ,witch 6 bolt ,,the ground wire is on one bolt ,, one bolt serve for the body ground ,, on the 74 with witsw lock,, you have a seal and you have one wire for the ground ,,for to make a betther ground,,albert

[Wally]

That is very cool Bill! I am already exited about finally finding a good replacement! I'll await your pm/mail

Albert: tnx for all the infos

[albert]

WALLY , i have look in the siemen parts ,, and they geeve for vw 83-94 the pn, is 221-010-013 R siemen pn 305-919-051-2 ,,plus many model ,,the twitst lock sender with ,,33 to 255 holms,, for 55 liter tank ,, i thing it is a good model ,,if you want the url i can send you that ,they geeve appx 60 pages for the siemens parts ,, sender and guage includ,, for différent vw model ,albert

[wshawn]

I'm looking for a replacement fuel sender unit as well for my '72 412 as well .

The part number for the VDO sender it is currently fitted with is 411 919 049 and looks just like the tubular one that Bill posted a picture of earlier.

As I have said in a previous thread my car has gone through a couple of units breaking the wire in the same place, about 1 mm from the end that has the copper spring arrangment.

I have been advised that it may be down to the stabiliser behind the gauge or the earth for the tank being a bit intermitent, either way I have no working fuel guage at the moment but now know that I can get 285 miles from a full tank at 70-80mph on the motorway before coasting to a halt on the hard shoulder .

If someone knows of another sender unit that will work then I would be grateful to know, if nothing else to spare me the 'evil eye' looks from my wife in the passenger seat