vaccum advance

[albert]

HY,RAY ,i have find in my notes for my 412,,1.7,,D,,jet ,one note for the distributor vaccum,advence ,in the same note i have many vaccum,, for 1.7 ,,,1.8,,,and 2 lites,,i geeve you one small example ,,my question is what model can be the best for my 412 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,pn,, 022-905-205 A + B ,,,start at 100-130 mm hg ,,,end at 190 mm hg for 12 at 15 deg.advence,,,,,,,,,retard, side ,,,,start at 60-100 mm hg end at 150 mm hg .,,8 at 10 deg. retard,,,,, i d,t can geeve all the list here but doo you know the possible model for the 1.7,, thanks for your help,,albert

[albert]

hy,,RAY,, wy, we have this bunch of the vaccuum advence for the 412 ,, i thing i have on my list appx,,20 différent vaccum,, for auto.trs,,or manual trs,, only for the 1.7 ,,d,,jet,, one in the lot is , i think it is the best for the 1,7 ea ,manual trs,, the 022-905-205 ,,D,and +,E AND F,subst. ,,,,,advence is 11 to 14 dgr. and 8 to 12 deg. retard,, centrifuge 10 to 15 dgr. advence to 1500 rpm and 14 to 19 dgr, to 2000 rpm for 22 to 27 dgr.to 3500 rpm bf,tdc,, that was for mt,, now i have for the 1,7 auto trs,, 11to13 dgr. advence and 10 to 15 deg. retard for 22 to 27 deg to 3000 rpm before ,,tdc,,,and many différent if the motor is with ,1.7,,w ,,ea,,ec,, and ,etc,, wy we d,t can buy a universal model,?????,plus if i look the pn. 022-905-205 a+b i have ,,,start to 100 to 130 mmhg end to 190 mmhg for 12 to 15 deg. advence,, and he star to 60 at 100 mmhg end at 150 mmhg for 8 to10 deg, retard ,,,what do this crazy mmhg,, i know mm is for milimeter,, but the rest hg,,is for what,,, i know that is a big tech question,, can you geeve some info. for that,and is it possible to test this mmhg with a vaccum guadge testor ,,,thaks ,,albert

[Bill K.]

Before converting to a Mallory, I had similar issues finding a good vacuum advance replacement. Jake Raby recommended using an early 36 hp adjustable can (Bosch p/n 1 237 121 113. VW p/n 111-905-271A). I have one for sale: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=572860

[raygreenwood]

The best stock advance unit was the one with #917 stamped on teh advance unit arm. It came in 411/412/914 1.7L with D-jet. It had an adjustable advance set screw and I add a retard adjustment set screw by drilling a 2mm set csrew hole through the stop pin for the retard notch in the retard side of the arm. Ray

[albert]

thanks RAY ,,for your info. i have look and i have this model on my 412 ,,i look on my gaz pump for to fix my loose of power afther 80 mils hrs,, wend i stay onder 80 mls it is ok,, start and accélération is correct but the hy speed afther 80 is buck,,,for to fix nex week ,,,, and i have something for you ,, in my notes i have find one web adress who make all the controle arm bushing for 20 model of car and old years ,, example,,merc,volvo,vw,audi,, and the rest ,, they geeve the od,id,, dimention in ,,mm,, for over of 300 arm bushing,, and for the 412 i thing we have the model 40 mm, for the front control arm ,,,A arm,,,, i take couple in note ,,example ,, renault clio 1990-98 height ( lardge ) 46 mm, od 40 mm id 12 mm,,for merc.class M 98,,,height 59.8 od 40mm id 12.4 mm or audi or passat 50 mm height 40mm od,,12 mm,id,, and many more,,but i have need the exact dimention for the 412 for to find the exact bushing in this lot ,, they geeve the dimention for the shock bushing too,, albert

[raygreenwood]

I can get you teh stock rubber bushing dimension. It is the same for teh bronze one. Ray

[ploug]

can a vacuum can from a type 3 with d-jet be used on a 412 1700 cc with d-jet ?

[ploug]

oops

the dizzy on the type 4 engine is stock, but the vacuum can is toast - and i've got a vacum can from a type 3 dizzy.

or is it the trial and error method ?

[raygreenwood]

Yes it can be used....as can many others, but it will be trial and arror to see whether the advance curce works. Also, many times the screw holes on the can do not line up.
Sorry....I've been away for a few days. Work is very busy.Ray

[ploug]

no need to apologize ! we all have jobs on the side

the bolt holes didn't line up - but that was an easy fix
it idles fine a drives great a low speed - missing a little thottleresponds.

but at higher speeds the centrifigul force schould take over - correct ? - and schould therefore not have influenze on the ignition ?!

part of my troubleshooting http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=122565

[wildthings]

With a timing light installed and the vacuum hose(s) removed you should be able to see the timing advancing as you rev the engine, if you set your timing at 28° BTDC at maximum centrifugal advance (3000-3500 rpms, hoses off) it should run correctly at speed.

The centrifugal advance and the vacuum advance work concurrently. One doesn't take over from the other.

[ploug]

thanks - i'm a noob, if you havn't already guessed

the timing is set with a timing light without an advance option
with hose off
at 3500 rpm's
the timing mark visible is a red "I"

so the problem i'm having a higher rpm's could be because the vacum can is wrong ??

[raygreenwood]

One thing that really helps the type 4 distributors...is a little blueprinting...nothing crazy...but it really helps. Try these things:
(1) drive the roll pin out ouf teh drive dog and take some of the slack out with shims from other distributors. Leave about .015"-.020" max.
(2) Remove the breaker plate inside of the distributor by taking out all of the screws. When you have this in your hand, separate teh two plates after removing the small screw that holds the spring leaf and the ball bearing. Clean everything carefully. Separate the plates. Notice the raised ring of metal on the bottom plate? I call that the glide ring. Polish that ring with 800 starting and finishing with 1000 grit or better until it is like glass. Then polish the part it rides on...on the upper plate.
Put some very smooth high temp grease...not white lithium...something that functions very well in cold weather.

Now with the plates back together....ad tension to teh spring leaf that holds the ball bearing. Don't leave so little that the plates can rattle up and down...but not so much that two fingers can't slide teh plates around.

Now...look directly opposite the ball bearing and spring. You will see a "finger" shaped tang of metal that hooks over the top plate. With feeler gauges....measure the gap between that tang and the upper plate.
It is always huge...like .030. That is wrong because it allows lifing of the plate when pulled by the vacuum advance...instead of turning...so you lose potential advance and response. Bend the tang downward until you have .003" cleanace.

On a stove....heat the plate to about 200-250F. Use gloves....make sure everything still turns very smoothly and easily.....and that the metal has not expanded enough with heat to give sticking or sloppiness.

(3) While you have the plate out...notice the springs in the advance unit. The skinny one has a long hoop and a lot of slop. With small needle nose pliers.....squeeze the long hoop to take the excessive slack out. If you see light rust anywhere on the weights and pivot points....remove the springs and weights...and polish and grease everything. If there are wear marks under the contact points of the weights...polish them out.
If the holes in teh weights have worn oval at all...get weights from anotyher dizzy that are better....or....steal the delrin bushings from a late bush watercooled dizzy....drill out your holes and swap them in.

Reassemble everything.

(4) Lastly.....with everythinng including the vacuum can installed....apply vacuum to teh can. Observe closely the connection between the vacuum can arm and the pin on the breaker plate. If at the moment you apply vacuum....the arm lifts or slips upward befrore the plate moves....you are wasting advance response. Shim under the "E" clip to make sure the arm does not lift. Also...make sure rthe hole in the advance arm is not sloppy or worn oval.

This level of attention really improves response and idle timing. Ray

[Lars S]

Thanks Ray, once again a complete instruction of how to do! This is something I defenitely will do during the off season of this year.


Lars S

[Lars S]

Finished with the distributor service, it really cured the jumpyness on low revs in 2nd gear!
Thanks Ray!!

/Lars S