still looking for snorkel

btectonic · Post by **btectonic** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:11 am

Cross posting from the classifieds to here, at the risk of being moderated...

Looking for throttle body to plastic air cleaner boot for a '73 1.7 auto, whatever will fit; have heater hose on there now, a touch leaky.

Could also use a good throttle body with a tight butterfly shaft also for '73 1.7 auto, plenum or not, either way's fine.

pm or e-mail, thnx,
Brad

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:36 pm

Can't help yet on the snorkle. I have one pristine one that I have been hoping to get around to making a cast for so I can make new ones....but it will be a while.

But...what you really should look for is the slightly large TB from a bus 2.0. It has recesses for shaft seals that are still available, has teh same TPS mounting and throttleshaft size, an o-ringed idle screw and a positive coil spring for the retirn spring on the throtttle. Theextra 2-3mm makes a difference on the stock 1.7 as well.
To make it fit right up and be factory in size to the plenum...just go to any flaps or harbor freight and by a cheap expanding tail pipe expander for the range you need. Slip it into teh plenum bore and turn the lug. It smoothly and efffortlessly expands the plenum hole to exactly the side of the TB opening.
That being said, I have numerous stock TB's and even a larger and later bus TB. The problem with teh stock ones is not that the plates are not tight...its that all of teh throttle shafts leak on them. They could easily be counter sunk at a machinist to fit the same seals that the 2.0 takes. I will check my supply of TB's tonight. Ray

btectonic · Post by **btectonic** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:45 pm

Hey Ray, pm'd you.

btectonic · Post by **btectonic** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:21 am

Anyone have a part number on this intake boot? It's the 1.7 TB to plastic air cleaner snorkel.

What's the solution, absent the actual boot? Flex radiator hose, a different VW part that comes close? I can port the outbound side of the AuxAirReg to the clean side of the air cleaner no problem, to deal with the absence of the port on the snorkel itself. How've you guys solved this one? Thnx!

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:31 am

In teh past, sans snorkel....I did exactly that. I ran the auxiliary air regulator to the air cleaner and used plastic ribbed flex hose similar to what went on the heater blower. It worked fine.

I also installed an aar at one point (when I was playing with a different air cleaner) that I used a simple airline line filter on instead of running a hose. Seemed to work just as well. http://www.mcmaster.com/#air-mufflers/=rtlbl Ray

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:33 am

the part # depends on body style (well, the letter code, at least).

the elbow on my wagon has no letter code (022 129 967) and my spares from the sedan/coupe have an "R" and an "S" suffix.

also, my VW Parts Manual shows letter codes as far down as "F" thru "K" depending on engine & chassis #s.

so thats:

wagon: 022 129 967

sedan/coupe: 022 129 967 F thru K (listed in my book) and at least R and S (in a box in my garage)

i'm not sure what the differences are between each letter code, but the two i can look at appear identical to me...

btectonic · Post by **btectonic** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:33 pm

Ooops! Missed that detail, it's on a wagon.

If anyone has a torn/cracked/mangled one that is basically in one piece send it on and I'll model it in SketchUp or Rhino (3d modeling software).

I'd be happy to do the same for any of them, sedan, et al.

I think the silicon hose vendors would probably be able to make something that would work. If I can measure and make a drawing to send on to them I can get a price and let folks know.

Could probably also make one out of thin walled 2.5" pipe and cut collars out of straight 2.5" silicone hose; might not have enough flex though.

Still trying to get this rebuild to run right; too much niggling stuff to get to to make any determinations. The builder threw a T3 dizzy in and "lost" my 205P. Ergggh...

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:17 am

Its a pressure cast part. The silicone hose vendors can sell you a hose, but not with the corrugations for strength or fittings for PCV hose etc. You can use the silicone hose but will need a soil spring inside to keep it from collaspsing unless its at least 3/16" wall section. They will not be able to help you unless you have $$$$$$$.
The type of mold for this part for casting for most hose and rubber companies woul be roughly $15,000 to $30,000 made in china and about three times that made here. They are machined from tool steel for blow molding or injection molding.

However, if you want to use vacuum cast pourable silicone, I can make a mold for you of polyester. The rubber houses do not do that type or mold making for low level work. Just no profit in it. You may find some private individuals or full custom houses that can make molds like I am talking about. Some are even CNC.
The issue with a polyester or plaster mold is this: I would have to have an old part....even a cracked one. From that part, I will fill in cracks and imperfections with was...and sculpt it untill is looks and is sized correctly. That measn in areas that are shrunken with age...I sand and surface until its right.
From there, you clean it well. Then spray it with either a micro-powdered urthane mold release or a poly-vinyl-acetate solution. Then....cap each end and all holes with a delrin disc cut to size...and fill the inside with duplicating resin in layers. The S-boot standing vertical will take about 10 layers. This resin only shrinks about .001"...so reproduction is dead accurate.
Then....uncap the holes.....and file the ends of the resin smooth where they are seen from each end.
Next....pour a 1/4" pad in a cheap 4" deep sheet pan (liberally lubed with mold release)....and let it harden. Lay the Snorkel with its inner filling of resin still intact. Pour layers of resin until you reach the original seam on the side of the boot. Let it dry....then spray the whole mess with a layer of poly-vinyl acetate mold release. Then pour layers of resin until you have covered the top by at least 1/2"

Let dry for 24 hours. Remove from pan. Seperate top and bottom mold from the original boot.

Now...with a sharp box knife....

.....slit the original boot in half and carefully remove the inner "buck".

This inner buck is now used as the inner buck for the mold. If you added your sealing discs carefully...it should have no extrusions or protrusions for holes like for PCV hose. It should be smooth.

It is placed in the two part mold with several small single point wire or wood "picks" to hold it centered.....or you can get fancy and drill a locating dowel hole through each end of the upper and lower mold parts.
It will take several more hours to drill the air release ports and pouring point holds in the mold.

All of this is then sealed lightly with silicone...placed in an aquariaum tank that will hold about 10" vacuum.....and a funnel installed for the pouring vent. Pour in catalyzed castable silicone (make sure its good to at least 400F).....then close the lid and apply vacuum until silicone starts to ooze from all vents.

Let cure and de-mold after 24 hours. It will be tricky stretching to get the inner buck out of the S-boot....but its just tedious not hard.

You can make about 30 parts with this mold before the outer sections usually need to be repaired or recast.....so the first part you cast in it...is a wax buck of the mold...so its simpler to make replacement molds.

Its this level of work...about a day or two...why not many rubber houses will help you. Ray

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:13 pm

wow...is there anything you haven't done?

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:24 pm

Its a by-product of the industry I am in. It includes vacuum forming and injection molding among other things. In shor t run work for displays and small parts....long before you get some company to pop for a six figure mold to make jillions of parts for years....you have to make samples and prototypes....as well as jigs and fixturing for printing and machining.

I need to make a snorkle for my 412 two door with 1.7L as well. I have two good ones...but....I know how long those are going to last. They are pretty hard. Also...they do not fit well with teh larger 2.0 Bus TB I have on it.

I could get busy and make both of these parts. They would have to be made of one of two things (1) Urethane..which is a bit stiffer and could havea life from 3-5 years before shrinkage and de-gassing from heat messed it up....or (2) Castable silicone....which would be good to 300-400F and have no shrinkage or oil problems. But...The first cast is a crap shoot on finding out if its finished durometer is sturdy enough to keep from collapsing. Yes..sure I could simply put in a coil spring....but then at that point....a simple hose could work with a coil spring.

The question is.....how many people would need one. I would not charge for profit...only for cost. I won't charge up front...to hard to get things done that way. I would just make the parts. But it would be nice to know that they have homes that might defray the cost.
I'm probably looking at roughly $300 in materials for the mold. If I made a measly 10 boots...thats $30 each. A bargain. It would be nicer for all to make 30 of them because people needed them...and then everyone gets away with $10 + shipping. Ray

Bill K. · Post by **Bill K.** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:16 pm

raygreenwood wrote:The question is.....how many people would need one.

Ray - that's a great offer. I'll take at least 1 for a 2-door, preferably for a 2L bus TB

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:49 am

OK. Let me do some checking on materials. I figure if I am going to start casting again....I might as well make it useful.
A list of the 411/412 boots that are critical:

Variant "S" boot

Two and four door Snorkel

A version of 2 and 4 door snorkel to fit a larger TB...or maybe it will stretch well enough. I can test that before I actually start.

Two and four door air cleaner to intake scoop boot.

And...One I have a semi-finished mold for....a silicone gas tank boot

The cooling bellows (last on the list...big mold).

Lets at least find out what people need. If I am going to buy facsimile compound and silicone.....its better to buy in bulk (like astwo to five gallon pail).

I researched the bellows years ago. Its a bit more involved but would last forever. It will be a three part mold with some hand work....namely slathering the inner buck with silicone...let dry....wind the outside with aramid fiber for reinforcement....then vacuum mold. I have two good intake boots from a four door. I can mold and sacrafice one if need be. Ray

dstar5000 · Post by **dstar5000** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:06 am

ebay.de has these all the time, bring your wallet.....

Don

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:51 am

Thanks Don! The only issue I have always had with NOS rubber...is that is New.OLD.stock.
I plan on keeping my 412 until I'm too old to drive and too ugly to screw (that ones getting close)

. If I can do these....I will not have to start sourcing parts again 5-10 years down the line when they are totally unobtanium. These woudl last basically forever ( in human years). All told, they would probably cost teh same as the Danish ones.

If I just made a part or two for myself.....I'm looking at about $175 or so just for a snorkel and a gas tank boot. The intake boot...the bellows...would be about another $150 in materials.
Its not that I won't spend it for myself....I'm just lazy. If more people want to help defray my cost....while getting parts for a reasonable cost for themselves.....at some point I become less lazy

Ray

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:36 am

i will definitely take one for a wagon... probably the stock size, but this is the first i've heard of a bus TB conversion, so i need to read some more before i decide which size... at any rate, count me in