where can i find an acceptably vacuum advance 71 411

[sharkskinman]

off of a 914 site

022 905 205 H (diz)
022 905 271 B (vac)
(PPC) 0 231 163 011 (BIP)
1.7L 1971 - 1972 W0 057 461 => W0 250 000 (PPC)

BIP doesn't show this dizzy as used on any 1.7L engines, but it does show it as a VW dizzy for 1971 to 1972 Type 4's.

off old volks home

-Distributor: VW 022-905-205AH, Bosch 0231 163 011 or 012
-Vacuum Can: 07 042
-Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 11-13deg Adv; Centrifugal: 10-15deg @ 1500rpm, 22-27deg @ 3000rpm

give me an alternitive for a vacuum canister
is this car supposed to have an advance and a retard?

can i just run off mechanical advance for the time being
(ray) i dont remember if the dizzy was a H or an AH
but the rod ion the can is 265 i think
but it seems its just an advance out of a type 3 maybe


can i use a can that has a advance of 11-13*
as a replacement

[albert]

look for to find,, no.117 on the cannister arm,,i have that on my 1.7-73 and it is excellent,,albert

[raygreenwood]

It will have an ugly flat spot off the line if you use the mechanical onoy....but it will work. You can also use just a single vacuum and no retard...if you have a working deceleration valve.

I don't have a cross match list to the arm #'s but here is what went with what distributors in 411/412. The list is Distributor, motor A# range and vacuum advance part #


(1) 021-905-205 V0 000 001 V0 100 000 021 905 271

(2) 021-905-205 B V0 000 001 V0 100 000 021 905 271

(3) 021-905-205 A Z 0 000 001 Z 0 018 774 021 905 271A

(4) 021-905-205 C Z 0 000 001 Z 0 018 774 021 905 271A


(5) 022-905-205 A W 0 000 001 W 0 007 333 022 905 271A

(6) 022-905-205 F W 0 007 334 W 0 057 034 022 905 271A

W 0 057 035 W 0 129 581 022 905 271A


EA 0 000 001 EA 0 039 464 022 905 271A

(7) 022-905-205 H W 0 057 035 W 0 129 581 022 905 271B


W 0 057 035 W 0 129 581 022 905 271B

(8) 021-905-205 K Z 0 018 775

(9) 021-905-205 L Z 0 018 775 021 905 271D

(10) 022-905-205 P EA Aug. 1972 022 905 271C

EA 0 039 465 022 905 271C

EB 0 000 001 022 905 271C

Ray

[sharkskinman]

Distributor: VW 022-905-205AH, Bosch 0231 163 011 or 012
Replacement: Same
Points: 01 011
Points Plate Assembly: VW 311-905-227C, Bosch 1237 110 161
Condensor: 02 054
Rotor: 04 033
Cap: 03 010
Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 007
Coil: 00 015 (Blue Coil 00012)
Vacuum Can: 07 042
FI Trigger Points Assembly: 1230 090 000
Ignition Wires: 09 171
Spark Plug: W7CC
Timing Set At: 27deg BTDC @ 3500rpm w/strobe w/vacuum hose disconnected. Red Mark on the Fan/Pulley must align with the "v" notch viewed thru the access hole in top center rear of fan housing.
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 11-13deg Adv; Centrifugal: 10-15deg @ 1500rpm, 22-27deg @ 3000rpm

so i just talked to Bosch
and they have Nothing to cross with it
it was ONLY on that distributor
and they havent made it in about 5-10 years

Damnit!
i have to look into the small places i guess

[raygreenwood]

This is too much nit-picking. That fact that it came on that distributor only...does not change the fact that that particular distributor was...only a couple of degrees different than the others. We are splitting hairs here. There are several vacuum units that will work...including some of the single vacuum advance only cans. I will look at a few of my notes tonight and see what I can come up with. Ray

[vwbill]

I think you can find the cans on ebay??? Item 280583268836... Here is a dist. 130382240726

The guys at Street and Sand toys in Ft. lauderdale can sometimes get them....

[wildthings]

NOS that might be close to what you want.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=903002

[sharkskinman]

at does the retard do
and is it nessesary
the distributor is an AH i think

the can on it now seems to be a T3 canister
it doesnt quite fit(cut mount hole)
and the rod says 265


and i have to look and see if there is a hole on the AAR for the retard hose
also see if there is if it is currently plugged as to not have a leak

[sharkskinman]

will this work
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-Split ... 415410e095

NOS BOSCH Vacuum Advance Unit in original box

Vw Part number # 113 905 271

Bosch Part number # 1 237 122 201 # (07 015)

Fits 61-64 VW’s.

or

[wildthings]

Engines of that era had vacuum advance only distributors, not what you want.

[raygreenwood]

The 4 speed Euro 411 and 412 can and did use single vacuum advances. You really need one with a retard. look for one for a bus with a 1.8 or 2.0.

The vacuum retard is designed to pull the advance back when the throttle snaps shut on deceleration....when the throttle may have just a slight amount of opening. This is a high rpm lean burn situation and you do not need excessive advance. On the other hand...if you have a working decel valve...the extra mixture that feeds D-jet on overrun about about 2500 rpm woyld allow you to get rid of vacuum retard if you want. Ray

[wildthings]

The 4 speed Euro 411 and 412 can and did use single vacuum advances.

Big difference between a vacuum only distributor and a SVDA distributor. That can is for a vacuum only distributor and isn't going to work with any distributor with centrifugal advance.

[sharkskinman]

ill look for a 1.8 or 2.0 bus can
but why wouldnt the one i asked work
the type 4 advance curve is a mixture of vacuum and mechanical
up to a certain point, right?

Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 11-13deg Adv; Centrifugal: 10-15deg @ 1500rpm, 22-27deg @ 3000rpm

with tht evacuum off and doing timing
i have it set as mechanicle advance 27* at the line at 3000rpms

the higher end RPMs are fine
but the second it shifts down to the next gear
it shutters

its not getting ANY vacuum advance
the can is trashed
you can hear air passing thru it

what will a different vacuum advance curve (diff can)
do exactly?

and mine SHOULD have a adv/retard can on it????

if all else fails
the one on it now is a T3 one i think
#265 on the rod

so il look for one like that (like my 71 F.I. Auto T3)
the only diff is the slight size of the engine
95% of all the other F.I. stuff is Identical to my T3


please some one look at this and try to find me a suitable replacement
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm#D7172FA

[sharkskinman]

i dont know what a decel valve is or where to find it

here is what i can find on rockauto.com
scroll to the bottom
http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,mfrname ... vance.html

[raygreenwood]

ill look for a 1.8 or 2.0 bus can
but why wouldnt the one i asked work
the type 4 advance curve is a mixture of vacuum and mechanical
up to a certain point, right?

Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 11-13deg Adv; Centrifugal: 10-15deg @ 1500rpm, 22-27deg @ 3000rpm

with tht evacuum off and doing timing
i have it set as mechanicle advance 27* at the line at 3000rpms

the higher end RPMs are fine
but the second it shifts down to the next gear
it shutters

its not getting ANY vacuum advance
the can is trashed
you can hear air passing thru it

what will a different vacuum advance curve (diff can)
do exactly?

and mine SHOULD have a adv/retard can on it????

if all else fails
the one on it now is a T3 one i think
#265 on the rod

so il look for one like that (like my 71 F.I. Auto T3)
the only diff is the slight size of the engine
95% of all the other F.I. stuff is Identical to my T3


please some one look at this and try to find me a suitable replacement
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm#D7172FA

The reason why the one you had listed....for the 356....will not work is because it is the worng configuration. Even if it bolted up...the arm is the wrong length and will move the contact breaker plate too far around just to hook it up. I tried long ago.

The only three criteria that you need for the vacuum advance...is (1) that they fit properly...and do not greatly alter the position of the distributor. This respect...numerous bus and some type 3 units will fit your type 4 distributor. (2) Then...they have to have an arm length that is at least similar. (3) Then it comes down to what vacuum sensitivity they have. Manyare so close that they will work with no ill changes. A few are so different that they cause issues.
Either they advance too quickly...or they advance way too slowly.

The object for the vacuum advance is that it cuts in quickly and smoothly before the centrifugal advance. For example...it typically begins advancing at about 100-1200 rpm. As the throttle opens further and vacuum is lost....you lose vacuum advance and by then the centrifugal is going along.
At high rpms, and small throttel openings...like at highway....you can have high vacuum again...and vaccum advance adds to the amount of advance that the centrifugal gives you. This can be a problem on high compression engines like 411/412. This is why many of them on the 411/412/914 with 1.7L had a vacuum can with an external adjustment screw.

There are a few other differences from can to can. Typically a bus can will do fine on a type 4...except that it retards too far. That can almost always be fixed by either installing an adjusting ring or screw on the stop pin for the vacuum retard on teh unit....or grinding or adjusting the notch in the lever/arm.

Usually the vacuum sensitivity of the bus double acting vacuum cans is fine....it is a type 4 after all. But...the difference that usually makes one not suitable or not able to be mdified is if the arm is too long or short.
You can add an advance stop/adjustment screw to any of these.

Also...like I noted....if you have a decel valve...you can use a single vaccum advance can (no retard)..that fit on Euro carbed type 4's and many type 3's. Ray