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so I've looking for a type 3 for some time now.... and recently I've been offered an early 69 (made in 68) 2 door 411L, automatic trans, apparently it's in great shape, no rust, original peru green paint, 60.000km, twin carb V engine (magnesium case probably), mint interior...what do you guys think? it's so ugly it has some appeal to it, but it's in such a nice shape i would be afraid to use it, and I kinda prefer the two boot coolness of type 3s (not to mention parts availability!), and for all I read gas mileage seems to be horrendous compared to a type 3, specially with the early carbed engine and auto trans, which would be a definite problem given current gas prices, as I'd like to do some road trips around Europe next year...any ideas?

The milage should not be horrendous. The injected version with D-jet gave almost identical mileage as the injected automatics of type 3's. I have driven 412's that have been changed over to twin carbs (stock)...and they got about 22 city and about 27 hwy. I averaged about 23 and 32 in my injected 1.7L.

Bear in mind...carbed 411's were never stock here. The one I drove was an injected version converted to carbs. So it has 8.2:1 compression. That makes a very large difference in how efficient the engine is and how well it runs. One issue with European models...expecially those with carbs...is that I believe they were low compression with carbs. Not a great combo for milage.

But back in those days...Euro gas was worse than ours. No so any longer. If you bought it...keep it as it is with carbs and put in a set of high compression 1.7L pistons. While you are in there ...change out the early cam with a Web cam or Raby cam.
The interesting thing is that Web-cam #73 has the same "V" series intake valve timing as the early 411 (yours).

I think you should go for it.
Once you drive a good condition 411/412 for a while...you will never want a type 3 again. Even though I do love type 3's....if you gave me a choice and said I could only have one.....and they were factory fresh....I would take any model of 411 or 412 (maybe not a 1974)....over any factory fresh type 3. They are that nice. Ray

To me it sounds like a wery intresting car! There are not many 411/412's out there not fiddeled with any more. In the long run a good sample from the 1st year model could atract collectors also (even if we havent seen any collector hausse yet...). Yes I agree, it is so ugly (and wery much 60's look) that it has a lot of coolness.

According to '69 broschures it has 68/76 Hp Din/Sae at 4500/5000 rpm and a compression of 7.8:1

Yes it probably has the early softer engine case, should not matter as long as you go stock.
This car could also have some of the unique dash bord details which appeared on the 1st cars, looking forward to some photos.
Whan VIN no is it?


/Lars S

yeah the thing is that it's so nice it would be a waste to use it , I'm not looking for a daily driver, but i want a car to drive it a lot! will post pics later

Yes, please let us have som photos on your find!
Reading some '69 european road tests the gas milage is not so bad, at 100km/h one magazine noted 25mpg and at 80km/h they noted 29mpg. The oficial VW figure was around 21-22mpg in mixed driving. Of course this is with fresh and properly tuned engines.

Good Luck!


/Lars S

Lars S wrote:Yes, please let us have som photos on your find!
Reading some '69 european road tests the gas milage is not so bad, at 100km/h one magazine noted 25mpg and at 80km/h they noted 29mpg. The oficial VW figure was around 21-22mpg in mixed driving. Of course this is with fresh and properly tuned engines.

Good Luck!


/Lars S

how much is that in l/100km? was that a manual or an auto? I assume a 10% penalty for the torque converter

and here a shot of the interior

Wow! Nice pic, you cant let that car go!
It has the early style dashboard and door handles - rare!


/Lars S

and some more pictures...I haven't seen the car in person yet in detail, which are the usual rust spots for 411s?

That is SWEEEEET! Get it! Well help you all we can on the suspension refurbs it will need because of age. But thats the nicest I have seen yet. Ray

This is getteng better and better! This is a one of a kind car!! I love that colour! Arn't the levers for flipping the front chair backrest of a special early type also?


/Lars S

Rust spots are several...those I have seen on my own cars are the longs, specially at the rear and front of the fenders where they meet the headlights. Around the back window under the rubber seal is another place to look.
Guess the eraly cars did not have the polyurethane foam in the longs and som other places(?)... luckily this make them rust less...

/Lars S

Lars S wrote:Arn't the levers for flipping the front chair backrest of a special early type also?

Those levers are not for tilting the back rest but to adjust the lumbar support. This was available only on the first model years L-models.

-Pirkka-

Lahti411 wrote:

Lars S wrote:Arn't the levers for flipping the front chair backrest of a special early type also?

Those levers are not for tilting the back rest but to adjust the lumbar support. This was available only on the first model years L-models.

-Pirkka-

Yes thats right Lahti, this makes this car even more wanttohave...

/Lars S

thruth is that it's looking more and more appealing, although I have other car options too so we'll see what happens