Karmann Ghia Problems

[jasonsamara]

I'm trying to help a friend of mine get his car back on the road and we are running into problems. The first problem seems to be electrical. When we turn the key it just clicks, but if you take a wrench and turn the engine about a quarter turn it will turn over and start about 3 out of 10 times. This leads me to the 2nd problem. It will only run when there is gas poured into the carb. We took the line off under the car and no gas came out. So I took an air hose and gave it a shot back towards the gas tank and then gas came out from the tank. Then we took the line off just before the pump and placed it down into a bottle full of fuel. When the car starts it is not pulling fuel from the bottle so we believe this is a fuel pump issue, however he just replaced the fuel pump. The only other note I can think to add is that when I removed the fuel cap it looks rusty down in there to me even though he states it's just where you can see and the tank is coated. Any help would be great!

[FJCamper]

Hi Jason,

You didn't say if the car had been setting for a long time.

The "electrical problem" can be a loose starter or seizing starter bushing, a loose or corroded transmission ground strap, or even a loose positive or negative ground terminals on the battery.

The fuel pump problem sounds like a really dirty fuel tank pickup that you've cleared. Check to make sure that your friend placed the fuel lines on the new fuel pump right. He may have the fuel inlet line on the pump outlet! The easy way to test this is to crank the engine and place your fingers on the fuel pump ports. One will suck, one will blow.

If you're getting no suck or blow from the pump, see if the fuel pump pushrod was reinstalled.

Check these simple things first and let us know.

FJC

[jasonsamara]

Thanks for the quick reply. The car has been sitting for probably 8-12 months outside under trees on top of a home made pit. I did notice when we opened the gas cap cover it was full of water! Now of course there is an actual gas cap under there but I don't think this is a good situation. Is there a drain hole under the rubber flap that fits over the tank neck?

[Marc]

I've never looked for a drain hole, but it seems like the sort of thing that a German engineer would provide. Otherwise, there's nothing here specific to a Karmann-Ghia (or, for that matter, any VW - it's pretty much Auto Mechanics 101). The starter failing to engage the flywheel unless the latter is positioned just right could be caused by several problems. Could be the pinion gear teeth on the starter are chewed flat from grinding against the flywheel of a running engine (due to a sticking ignition switch at some time in the past) or the solenoid may be too weak to do its job -- or the starter/solenoid are OK (or at least in borderline condition) and not getting enough current from the battery.
Here's an article that describes some of the checks you need to do to narrow down the list of suspects:
http://www.vw-resource.com/starter.html

There are two different fuel pump families used on `61-up Type I engines (with several variations in each). "High-pivot" pumps use a 108mm pushrod that should protrude 13mm above the top gasket of the intermediate flange at full rise while "low-pivot" pumps use a 100mm pushrod which only protrudes 5mm. Generally, the fuel inlet from the tank is lower on the pump than the outlet to the carburetor, but that's not true of some replacement pumps - it's easy to connect them backwards.

[jasonsamara]

I swear I saw a bubble coming out of the bottle we were using, I thought I saw bubbles about a second apart, so that leads me to believe it might be backwards. I will check this. Thanks.

[jasonsamara]

Update......So we placed a new fuel pump on the car yesterday. Poured gas in the carb and she fired up but died as soon as the gas in the carb burned up. So we did this a few times and the she started pumping fuel into the filter. However, she never would run more than about 15-20 sec. After about 10 attempts at this I noticed a bunch of debris in the bottom of the fuel filter. So I'm thinking the debris just clogged up the old pump and it went bad and I'm sure this will be the same story in time. He wants to replace the fuel line and I'm trying to talk him into replacing the tank also but he swears the tank has been treated. I just thought you guys would like an update and any advice would be great. That fuel line does not look like an easy job. Thanks.

[Marc]

No the fuel line is not easy to replace...and it's very rarely necessary. "Treated" or not, the tank is the most likely suspect from what you've told us. It is possible to remove the strainer with the tank in place...

[helowrench]

There is a drain for the filler area.
gimme a bit, and i will go check on it.

[silkvw]

An old speedometer cable makes a nice tool to clean the inside of the metal fuel line if you chuck it up in an electric drill and slowly feed it down the tube as the drill spins the cable. The tube will also need to be flushed with gas or a solvent and then blown out with compressed air. The gas tank should be removed while you do this, just in case there is a spark.
Now you know why people keep those broken speedo cables.

[MooRocket811]

Hi, Great posts, I'm having the same issues with a 71. I've replaced the carb (it was bad to begin with) and then the fuel pump broke... but the new set up isn't getting gas thru the system. Any updates that you all can post that fixed this or any suggestions? I've checked the fuel lines (all clean) and the old pushrod is installed. Could the pushrod be to short? Still won't move fuel. Any help would be great!

[Marc]

There are two fuelpump pushrod lengths, 100mm and 108mm. The longer one is for "high-pivot" pumps, as were original equipment on generator-equipped engines; it should protrude 13mm above the intermediate flange top gasket when at full rise (simply rotate the crankshaft until the pushrod sticks out the maximum and measure - should be a hair over ½").
The shorter pushrod was used with "low-pivot" pumps designed to have a lower profile for alternator engines; it sticks out 5mm less, or about 5/16".

There have been some perversions in the design of the "head" of certain aftermarket pumps to allow using a high-pivot/long-pushrod pump with an alternator so you can't go by gross physical appearance alone, it's only the height of the pivot which determines which pushrod to use.

One thing that's tripped folks up is that while all the pumps from 1961 through 1970 had their inlet below the outlet, later pumps and most replacements have them reversed. You can feel the action of the checkvalves if you suck on the pipes and stroke the lever; you probably don't want to try that if the pump may have gas in it, though, so just stroke the lever and observe which pipe spits out fuel.

http://web.archive.org/web/200601102058 ... lpumps.htm

[jasonsamara]

Just to give an update. We removed the speedometer because it did not work. It was just locked up and now works. When I put it back in the car and hooked the wires up I got a wire crossed to a ground Well as you can guess as soon as we turned the ignition smoke filled the air. Thank goodness it didn't start a fire. After we replaced the fuse and I corrected the problem I noticed a wire that was just barely hanging together so I took the old tape off and redid it. After this we managed to get all the lights working except for the green arrows on the speedometer itself, but they didn't work before. The bulb is good but we don't have juice in that wire for some reason. Anyway, we moved back to the motor situation. Would you believe it turns over every time now without havin to crank the motor over by hand a few times? The electrical is a nightmare on this car, but it was like this when he got it. So back to the fuel problem. I took the top of the carb off, removed the float, cleaned all the debris out of that bowl. Now on the top piece that I removed there is a little pin that moves in and out and it was locked up. So we freed it up, lubricated it, placed a new gasket on and put it all back together. Once again it would run as long as you pour gas directly into the carb. Now we have it pumping from a bottle instead of the tank also. So we take the top of carb off again and now there is gas in the bowl so it's atleast getting that far. We removed some jets/screws (careful to remember their settings) and sprayed carb cleaner and shot some air in the holes. Then we put it all back together and it still will not run. I think we are gonna take the carb off and have it rebuilt unless one of you guys know something we are missing?

[helowrench]

Rebuilding that carb is very simple.
The kit is about $10, plan on a couple of hours to do the job

[Marc]

....know something we are missing?

Perhaps some mechanical/electrical aptitude? Sounds harsh, I realize...but I do wish you could've gained some skills by working on a less-desirable/collectible car before you tackled this one.

If this car is one factory-equipped with a 4-prong flasher unit (Terminals marked + or 49, 49a, 31, and KBL) be advised that the first thing that usually goes wrong with that type is a failure of the auxiliary contact that supplies KBL for the indicator lamps on the dash. Starting in `71, VW eliminated Term KBL and simply connected the indicator lamps to the flasher output, Term 49a. This arrangement makes the indicator lamps flash in alternation with the external lamps (rather than in unison with them) but it's acceptable. If you have the 4-prong flasher, try using a piggy-back connector to hook the indicator lamp wire to Term 49.

[FJCamper]

Hi Jason,

Sorry about the wiring excitement.

I think I understand you have a bottle of gas from which your fuel pump is sucking fuel and the engine will run? And you are not connected to the fuel tank? If so, the tank is just full of rust and trash and needs to be removed and cleaned out.

You also mentioned the needle valve (in the carb top) was stuck. Replace it.

If I am misunderstanding you, and you can only run the engine by manually filling the carb float bowl, you have no fuel pump action.

FJC