Race Radio setup and laws.

[TimS]

I've been doing some research on race radios, and thought I'd open up a thread for both my notes and for everyone else's input.

And for those that say a 'race radio' is too expensive: http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-011362

I've was also looking at the icom 2300h that is self programmable at the same site for $199.


I've had some questions...

For starters, What is the legality of using "weatherman channel" or other licensed frequencies during a play day? Do you "need" a ham license according to the letter of the law? Do you need permission from the license holder, technically. Is you have a 2 meter ham licesne, I assume you can use any of the other channels (within what's available for "chatteR") with the same success.

If you do race, how to you get a channel on race day? Do you pick one? Do you need to get licensed for one? again, both "legal" and "common practice" are acceptable answers here.

Also, for radio setup, how do you tune your antenna for a target frequency?

Thanks. Anyone feel free to add input or good deals on race radios.

How about range. If you use a little 2 foot antenna that I see on a lot of cars, how much range can you expect over gently rolling desert with 65 watts tx power? How about over a mountaintop?

Anyone have experiences with the MARS/CAP mods on the above radios? The icom says clip d13 diode for extended transmit.

Thanks. I'll update with my experiences, too, as I enter this realm of communication.

[kyle_pc_75]

Funny you bring this up, I was just talking to one of my coworkers about this last week as he's a licensed HAM radio operator. He told me that the radios we use are not required to be licensed because of the relatively low power. Having said that, if you were to be operating somewhere where you were interfering with a licensed operator, you could be shut down. As an example, at work we use similar frequencies to run the SCADA (Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition) system that keeps our treatment plants, pump stations, and tanks all talking to one another. There have been some instances where we've had to track down and shut down unlicensed, but legal, users of close frequencies. Sundance Film Festival was once a fine example of that. One year we were even getting interference from a user in Evanston, WY, with a radio about as powerful as the race radios we use, about 60 miles away and over a few mountains. That gives you an idea of potential range.

Cameron can probably speak to the technical side of things as he set up BRAT's as well as my race radio.

[kyle_pc_75]

Oh, and Cameron got us set up for $200 including a very nice, tuned antenna. He did the programming, not sure what the software cost him.

[DesertGuy]

Getting an assigned frequency isn't all that difficult, we have an assigned primary and secondary frequency. If in a closed group, we would stay on our frequencies; if in an open group, we would bump out to a programmed frequency. In Mexico, it is courtesy to monitor Weatherman, especially if you are down around when prerunning is open. It is not uncommon to pick up someone not in your group needing help. You shouldn't be on a relay frequency or pit club frequency if a race is going on... you'd be surprised how many knuckleheads are using Weatherman to talk to each other during a race...and they are just spectating.

[Turbo_Manx_Maniac]

A ham guy at work told me it's legal to transmit on the frequencies that the radio broadcasts on. I have the Kenwood 271A, above the band you're allowed to transmit on you can listen only. Quite conviently, if you remove the cover and remove one surface mount resistor you can now transmit on those frequencies too.

I bought about 5 of the radio/antenna setups so our group all had the same setup. A few of us are race savvy and know where to monitor only and where we can safely transmit. Don't want to be a Richard Cranium as Weatherman would call you.

In Ocotillo, we can talk from painted gorge to Sand dam, hardly ever go out of range. It's important to wire them properly, they draw a lot of current and you can easily reduce your range with a shoddy install. Having a shop adjust the SWR ratio of your antenna will also maximize performance.

[TimS]

Thanks for all the info.

Oh, and Cameron got us set up for $200 including a very nice, tuned antenna. He did the programming, not sure what the software cost him.

I'm looking at the "self programmable" radios so I can use it for other than race purposes and for ham (repeater) operation as a hobby, also.

Getting an assigned frequency isn't all that difficult, we have an assigned primary and secondary frequency.

Is this something you do through the FCC, is there a fee involved?


Some more research...

MURS radio channels (151.820 MHz,151.880 MHz,151.940 MHz,154.570 MHz,154.600 MHz are limited to 2 watts transmission and only by FCC certified MURS radios.


It looks like 150.5Mhz - 156.2475Mhz are designated by FCC for "fixed mobile" and "fixed land mobile" applications and are regulated under FCC part 22 (public mobile), part 90 (private land mobile), and part 95 (personal radio). (reference - http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/ ... ctable.pdf)


Another interesting note is that both of the above radios are NOT approved for transmission in this spectrum. You must have a commercial unit instead of an amateur unit. The radio that Cameron told me about IS a commercial unit (IC-f5021). The commerical units, among other things, are not "required to accept any interferance", as the amateur units are, and have more circuitry to refine both transmit and recieve signals.

Another note... (from http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index. ... l_business)

In 1992, the FCC began work to develop an overall strategy for using the spectrum in the Private Land Mobile Radio (PLMR) allocations more efficiently to meet future communications requirements. Refarming is the informal name of a notice and comment rule-making proceeding (PR Docket No. 92-235) opened to achieve this goal.
The FCC adopted the Report and Order (R&O) on refarming in 1995 to address the increasing communications requirements of the private land mobile radio (PLMR) community and to develop a strategy for encouraging more efficient use of PLMR spectrum below 800 MHz (services within the 150-174 MHz, 421-430 MHz, 450-470 MHz, and 470-512 MHz bands). This Report and Order served as a critical first step toward achieving this goal. In February of 1997, the FCC adopted the Second Report and Order on refarming which served as the next critical step toward providing a regulatory framework which promotes this goal. As a result of this Order, the Industrial Radio Services (Power, Petroleum, Forest Products, Film & Video Production, Relay Press, Special Industrial, Business, Manufacturers, and Telephone Maintenance Radio Services) and the Land Transportation Radio Services (Motor Carrier, Railroad, Taxicab, and Automobile Emergency Radio Services) were combined to form the Industrial/Business Radio Pool (the new Subpart C of Part 90, Title 47 CFR).

I also found a note discussing a lawsuit filed many years ago, that weatherman granted permission for anyone to use their channel during score events (with restrictions). This makes me believe that you would need some form of permission to use licensed channels.

I need to get into the details of the FCC rules...

[Steve Arndt]

This must be strictly a race thing right? So you can have the sound in your helmet?

There is almost no standard CB traffic out in the desert here, so regular CBs work nice. I have a "modified" CB that lets you tune half way between regular channels, like 19.5 vs 19. If the person you comm with also is tuned to the half channel you get your own air space even if the standard channels have traffic. My CB is also modified with switchable output power. Standard, and higher. The I need to get a better antenna now. The whole setup costs $29 on ebay.
Steve

[TimS]

And here is a list of frequencies (http://www.ruggedradios.com/PDF/Frequen ... encies.pdf)

Rugged 1
Channel RX TX Description
Rugged Race Products
Frequency Programming
1 151.625 151.625 Weatherman
2 151.715 151.715 BFG Relay
3 154.980 154.980 Baja Pits
4 151.685 151.685 Network
5 151.925 151.925 Checkers
6 150.860 150.860 Fair
7 153.110 153.110 Yokohama
8 152.960 152.960 Campeones
9 151.505 151.505 Checkers Vegas
10 153.395 153.395 BFG Pits
11 153.380 153.380 Mag 7
12 155.160 155.160 National Rescue
13 153.245 153.245 Core
14 156.675 156.675 RUGGED D-023
15 152.510 152.510 Sand Limo
16 154.515 154.515 PCI Relay
17 151.775 151.775 Locos Mocos
Race Teams
18 153.140 153.140 Agave 37 153.230 153.230 RJR2
19 153.620 153.620 Becker 38 150.950 150.950 SMD1
20 153.185 153.185 Becker2 39 151.130 151.130 SMD2
21 153.245 153.245 Dicker1 40 151.855 151.855 SMD3
22 151.580 151.580 Dicker2 41 152.165 152.165 SMPUP
23 151.535 151.535 EJR1 42 157.560 157.560 Shepard
24 151.130 151.130 EJR2 43 152.045 152.045 Shepard2
25 152.255 152.255 Ghansen 44 151.370 151.370 Starts
26 151.760 151.760 Herzog 45 151.250 151.250 Starts2
27 151.670 151.670 Hogman 46 151.970 151.970 Tatum
28 151.175 151.175 Hunt1 47 151.010 151.010 C and C
29 153.425 153.425 Hunt2 48 151.415 151.415 Dukes1
30 153.680 153.680 Koch 49 152.180 152.180 Dukes2
31 153.350 153.350 Licitra1 50 152.285 152.285 S and G 1
32 153.095 153.095 Licitra2 51 153.185 153.185 S and G 2
33 152.975 152.975 Mango1 52 153.245 153.245 Voss1
34 157.500 157.500 Mango2 53 152.720 152.720 Voss2
35 157.545 157.545 McGilvry 54 152.870 152.870 Protruck
Racer X
55 152.505 152.505 Trick Racing 75 154.515 154.515 PCI Relay
56 154.980 154.980 Baja Pits #1 76 158.655 158.655 Pro Pit
57 153.395 153.395 BFG Pits 77 150.830 150.830 Record
58 151.715 151.715 BFG Relay 78 151.805 151.805 Red X Relay #1
59 151.490 151.490 BITD 79 157.470 157.470 Red X Relay #2
60 151.775 151.775 Chapala Dusters 80 151.955 151.955 Score #1
61 151.925 151.925 Checkers #1 81 151.490 151.490 Score Medical
62 151.505 151.505 Checkers #2 82 155.160 155.160 Search & Rescue
63 158.550 158.550 Code 83 162.400 162.400 Weather 1
64 150.860 150.860 Fair 84 162.425 162.425 Weather 2
65 151.820 151.820 JeepSpeed 85 162.450 162.450 Weather 3
66 151.775 151.775 Locos Mocos 86 162.475 162.475 Weather 4
67 152.960 152.960 Los Campeones 87 162.500 162.500 Weather 5
68 153.380 153.380 Mag 7 #1 88 162.525 162.525 Weather 6
69 150.830 150.830 Mag 7 #2 89 162.550 162.550 Weather 7
70 151.055 151.055 MDR 90 151.625 151.625 Weatherman
71 157.895 157.895 Mikes Sky Ranch 91 154.515 154.515 Whiplash
72 152.945 152.945 More
73 151.685 151.685 Network
74 152.780 152.780 Off-Road.com

Here is a frequency list, copied and pasted for preservation.

[TimS]

This must be strictly a race thing right? So you can have the sound in your helmet?

There is almost no standard CB traffic out in the desert here, so regular CBs work nice. I have a "modified" CB that lets you tune half way between regular channels, like 19.5 vs 19. If the person you comm with also is tuned to the half channel you get your own air space even if the standard channels have traffic. My CB is also modified with switchable output power. Standard, and higher. The I need to get a better antenna now. The whole setup costs $29 on ebay.
Steve

Steve, Thanks. I've done countless research on CB comms, too, as my wife uses this primarily for business. CB transmit is limited to 5watts (legally) which limits range significantly. The truckers that you hear "loud and clear" and from halfway across the state are far from legal. With a well tuned base station on top of a hill I was able to get about 15 miles of range. The VHF radios should reach 50 miles max. Though, I have had luck transmitting over mountains at distances of 7-8 miles with mobile CB.

I'm not discounting the value of CB, it has it's place, too. Part of my desire to go VHF is that the repeater network in this part of the country is significant, and backcountry comms can be achieved most of the time with a simple handheld. There are even internet based repeaters, on the amateur band, that can connect throughout the country, but when traveling in areas of no cell phone reception, as I do on a weekly basis, having a backup for of communication is enticing.

[Steve Arndt]

How do these race radios work in the mountains? CB needs good line of site.

[TimS]

From http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index. ... l_business

Individuals or entities desiring to operate on frequencies listed in the Industrial/Business Pool are required to obtain a radio station license for these frequencies. There is information available to help you with the Licensing Process.

This is part 90 from FCC stating frequency assignment and other info... http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c= ... .3&idno=47

In regards to the weatherman channel (151.625) it says...

This frequency will be assigned only to stations used in itinerant operations, except within 56 km (35 miles) of Detroit, Mich., where it may be assigned for either itinerant or permanent area operations ( i.e., general use).

Hmmm... (from same document)

An applicant for a station with a service area radius greater than 40 km (25 mi) must justify the requested service area radius, which will be authorized only in accordance with table 1, note 4. For base stations with service areas greater than 80 km, all operations 80 km or less from the base station will be on a primary basis and all operations outside of 80 km from the base station will be on a secondary basis and will be entitled to no protection from primary operations.

So there is a difference between primary users and secondary users? Must look into this more.

Okay, now we are getting somewhere... Itinerant frequencies are for business use for mobile applications where there is not a very defined "service area". A license is required, as it turns out, but there are many that use these itinerant frequencies without a license.

For Example... Here is a list of frequencies that are factory defaults for Motorola handhelds -

Ch Frequency
1 151.6250
2 151.9550
3 152.8850
4 152.9150
5 151.7000
6 151.7600
7 152.9450
8 151.8350
9 151.8050
10 151.5125
11 151.6550
12 151.6850
13 151.7150
14 151.7450
15 151.7750
16 151.8650
17 151.8950
18 151.9250
19 152.7000
20 154.4900
21 154.5150
22 154.5275
23 154.5400
24 153.0050
25 154.6550
26 158.4000
27 158.4075

http://www.scanningcny.com/businesslp.html <-- another list


Do you notice channel one is the "weatherman" channel?

[TimS]

And one more... typical "itinerant" frequencies and their designations

vhf freq.jpg

[TimS]

How do these race radios work in the mountains? CB needs good line of site.

Just got back from a business trip, another good thing about the VHF is the PL codes instead of relying on squelch alone. I got about 8 or 10 miles apart with gently rolling interstate between before two well tuned stock cobra CB setups started breaking up.

another interesting link about the differences between frequencies and radios, CB's are in the very low frequency range (23Mhz). http://nmems.org/Communications/RadioTr ... eric.ppt#4

[TimS]

Okay, after all the warnings of fines and illegalities, I scheduled my ham lisence exam for September. Then I'll be legit on the ham freq's for recreational use. I'll use race freqs during a race event only.

I'm excited that there is a very extensive network of repeaters around here. For instance, from where we will be camping in Oregon, I could talk to my house is eastern Idaho.

Tk-281a showed up today.

[560]

Thanks Tim (and others) for the good reading.
I got some education today.

Mike