machine shop price check

[helowrench]

Fellas, I need a sanity check here.
Called a local vw machine shop for a quote.
Job consists of
#1 removal of step from cyl heads
#2 cutting 3angles into the valve seats

These are new, disassembled heads, the job is machine work only, quote received was right at $300.
I have not done this in quite a few years and want to make sure this is a fair price.

Alternatively, any known good machine shops in the Dallas area?

Thanks,

Rob

[Hedrock]

Sounds high to me. I would send them to Brother's

[turboblue]

Sounds high to me. I would send them to Brother's

Ditto on Brothers.

[Piledriver]

Engine Machine in Ft. Worth was pretty reasonable when I had some T4 work done awhile back, but the expense...by the time you drive to foat wuth and back twice you could USPS priority mail them to Califonia and back cheaper, even if you drove the Jetta to Ft. Worth.
(Have to pay for mileage and your time in the cost calculation)

Who quoted $300? (so I can avoid them)

[helowrench]

Machine shop out in Caddo Mills adverts on TOS

At that kind of prices, I would buy my own tooling, and do it myself.
Would pay for itself on the 3rd engine.................


(no, no,no,no must resist the impulse to start surfing CL for milling machinery)

[sparkmaster1]

That is really expensive. Too bad you are not in the Seattle Wa area,, I'd do them for much less. I'd send them to Brothers, they do nice work.
Tim

[nsracing]

And the you people that do machine work know this to be expensive? You figure 150 for the 3 angle job on both heads. another 150 to deck the heads even. That is about what I charge to do those jobs.

All depends on what tools the shop uses to do the job. A flycut or bore job is not all the same. Most shops will cut your heads w/ some cheap $2-dollar cutter and leave rough surfaces. I use a very expensive Wohlhaupter boring/facing head at $3000 each. It leaves super fine finishes and accurate holes.

If someone offered to take your appendix out for $50 dollars versus $3000 -dollars which one will you use? Exactly my point.

It all depends on how the shop will do the job.

Some will offer a balance job w/ just a pair knife blades cheap and call it good. Or you can have a precision late-model digital dynamic balancer do the job for a bit more.

Get a true education on how things are done and you will appreciate it more what it takes to do the job right.

my 2 cents

[helowrench]

nsracing, that is exactly why I was asking.
I am perfectly willing to spend the money where necessary, as long as it is actually necessary.

[Piledriver]

...a shop charging 50% over going rate has some 'splaining to do.
Smart shop managers ~universally eat the cost of good tooling via reduced job time and rework.

Non-competitive on price in an area with dozens of competing shops simply means "going out of business" sooner or later
Unless you have no local competition, some long term contract, or some obscure specialty, you are dead.

There is a certain amount of "you get what you pay for" but sometimes it's just price gouging because you think you can, and/or have a high volume wholesale customer of Brightly Painted Bling who keeps you busy so you don't care if you are competitive, possible in this case.

People wonder why the ACVW hobby is dying...
Hint: It's only partially due to the fact that VW people are cheap.
When did a 1776 start costing more than a GM crate motor?

[nsracing]

To Pile, the answer to that motor comparison is that most people who are willing to do a good job for comparable price are dead or dying. And the shops that have been supported by other shops have gone out of business. so it all went to hell. And another is that, this VW business is like a drug addiction for us now -someone has figured out that we will pay to almost anything to keep at it. Only the hardcore ones are still at it. Do we even care if we attract newer people anymore to this beloved hobby?

I have known long ago that I love this hobby too much. I have invested so much of my labor and cash to afford the machines I have to keep it all manageable and have some control over most the things involved in the VW aircooled. I hated sending heads and cases out to get machined before as they were not to my expected specs. Someone will always flip it up. What can I do then? They have my money and the part is cut. Not a lot of control on these things. So I learned it and will do all the machine work myself. I am at the point now I have my own Gleason crankshaft welder and Storm Vulcan crankshaft grinder. The only thing out of my control now is forging the stupid parts. Well, there are plenty of suppliers for those. If they can provide a rough forging, I can finish-machine it.

I was watching this video once on how a case was machined for larger pistons/cyl and it was purported to be gospel. The "machinist" crammed this toolbit in there by hand in one single shot. Was it accurate? Well you have a very large hole w/ over 0.020 overbore...sure the new cylinders will fit to kingdom-come. no problem. Just goup the bottoms w/ several tubes of sealer so it does not leak. It was a brand new case too mind you. Pathetic. I almost cried when I saw that.

What should have been done is several roughing passes on the bore and at least 2 finishing cut to final dimension. You can get the best tolerances like that to within just 0.002" and the cylinders will fit perfectly. Most shops will not even check the milling machine if the headstock is square w/ the table. What for? You only paid them to bore the holes for $10 each. That is what you got!

Most people in this hobby has no clue of machining processes. Hence I cannot expect them to understand. They will gladly accept a $40 linebore that does not line up or out of spec. Then later come here on next breath that the crankshaft is binding when torqued t specs. Or that the bearing rolled w/ the crankshaft. Well duh... Some shops actually think they can do this "by feel."

My idea is to find yourself a good shop that can do competent work and stay w/ that shop. There are still few out there who are willing to do it right w/ properly trained employees.

Take care all.