I need some suspension/brake parts list help - 1972 Std Bug

[ErikTande]

I'm trying to figure out a parts list for my build and I need some advice on brakes and suspension. I'm a novice and need some help. I'll be using 17"x8" wheels and I'm getting 3" wider rear fenders. I want an adjustable coilover setup on both the front and rear. I'll need disc brakes all around.

Note: The car is initially going to get a subaru swap (ej22) and I plan on using the stock VW transmission. However, down the road the transmission will need to be upgraded when I go with a bigger subaru motor. Is that going to affect my suspension choice? If it does, should I swap transmission right way to make sure I'm not doubling up on parts purchases?
Also, I'm doing a body off restore on the car this summer, so I kinda figured it would be a good time to get the suspension sorted out as well.

For brakes, a kit like this looks attractive to me because I'd like to drill a 5x114.3 pattern.
http://www.socalautoparts.com/index.php ... ont-c-1238


I have no idea where to start with the suspension, but I know it's going to be pricey. Comfort isn't on my radar, this is going to be a road car built for twisty roads and the occasional road course, and I enjoy a stiff ride anyway. Giggity. I just want the best handling I can afford, even though it's looking like it's going to be well into the thousands of dollars.

I found this from Eyeball, it looks like a pretty awesome setup for the front. I also found the Red 9 version:
http://www.eyeball-engineering.net/a-arm.html
http://www.red9design.com/type1.htm



I'll likely be going with one of those two for the front.

What options do I have for the rear suspension? I saw on the Red 9 site they had rear coilover conversions. Is there anywhere else that has high quality options for the rear suspension? Does anyone know if I'll run into issues with the subaru swap? Clearance problems or anything?

Thanks!






_______________________________________
I'm going to update this thread with my final purchase plan list here:

Brakes:

Front Suspension:

Rear Suspension:

[helowrench]

Be aware, that the kit you show for your rear brakes, has no parking brake function.
Other than that, they're a solid unit, as those are the Ghia disc (front) calipers.

[helowrench]

Rear suspension options are along the lines of what you have already seen, and the Porsche 944 rear suspension, which bolts (ish) in, and would come with better brakes, and a parking brake.

[ErikTande]

Rear suspension options are along the lines of what you have already seen, and the Porsche 944 rear suspension, which bolts (ish) in, and would come with better brakes, and a parking brake.

Nice, I'll definitely look into the 944 rear suspension. Is there a conversion guide anywhere that you know of?

[helowrench]

Really, spring plate and diagonal arm bolt in once you install a beetle diagonal arm bushing into the inboard end.
All of the 924/944/968 torsion bars work whether you us the rest of it or not.
Sometimes I see the bump stop get trimmed depending on tire/rim combo.
Beetle stub shaft presses right in.
A parking brake cable adapter is needed "swan neck"

It does put you into the Porsche pattern wheel. 5x130 IIRC.

Be aware that while there are 3 different diagonals, the two aluminum ones will push the wheel outboard more.

[Marc]

The 924/944 rear disc brakes also will bolt up directly to a stock Beetle diagonal arm, you just need the longer Porsche bearing cover bolts. The track width is still increased, but most Porsche rims have so much backspace that you might still need spacers to compensate....and yes, they're all 5x130...if running 114.3 was mandatory I suppose adapters could be employed (I don't think redrilling the 9x4 stuff to 114.3 is viable, but maybe...)
As mentioned, to connect Beetle e-brake cables you need aftermarket custom "swans" (so called because their profile sorta resembles one) as well as some spacer tubes to jack the cable sheaths out. I got mine from an outfit in Canada, their name escapes me at the moment. You'll also need some custom-made pipes from the flex hoses to the calipers, but that's mostly just a matter of careful bending of some premade straight pipes with DIN bubble-flare ends, you needn't install your own ends.
I've run these in conjunction with `66-`71 Type III front calipers and even though the Porsche rears are larger the front-to-rear bias feels perfect to me - but then, I run a larger rear tire; with same-size tires you could need to add a proportioning valve or fit larger front brakes to restore the balance if you find the rears are locking up prematurely.

[ErikTande]

The 924/944 rear disc brakes also will bolt up directly to a stock Beetle diagonal arm, you just need the longer Porsche bearing cover bolts. The track width is still increased, but most Porsche rims have so much backspace that you might still need spacers to compensate....and yes, they're all 5x130...if running 114.3 was mandatory I suppose adapters could be employed (I don't think redrilling the 9x4 stuff to 114.3 is viable, but maybe...)
As mentioned, to connect Beetle e-brake cables you need aftermarket custom "swans" (so called because their profile sorta resembles one) as well as some spacer tubes to jack the cable sheaths out. I got mine from an outfit in Canada, their name escapes me at the moment. You'll also need some custom-made pipes from the flex hoses to the calipers, but that's mostly just a matter of careful bending of some premade straight pipes with DIN bubble-flare ends, you needn't install your own ends.
I've run these in conjunction with `66-`71 Type III front calipers and even though the Porsche rears are larger the front-to-rear bias feels perfect to me - but then, I run a larger rear tire; with same-size tires you could need to add a proportioning valve or fit larger front brakes to restore the balance if you find the rears are locking up prematurely.

This is super helpful, thanks! Increasing the track width is definitely a bonus. I'll look into what it will take to change the bolt pattern, I don't want spacers or adapters. There just isn't a ton of wheel options for 5x130.

If I go with the 944 rear suspension, does that give me any rear coilover or adjustable suspension options?

[Bruce.m]

The 944 hubs are recessed where the studs are fitted so you MIGHT be able to drill & spot face for another PDC..
If you use the 944 spring plates you get a ride height adjuster but it isn't a "bolt-on" part. 944 uses torsion bar so no coilovers as std, although anything is possible

[helowrench]

the 944 has a bit of height/camber adjustability built into it. 1-2", basically for corner weighting.
I have seen coilovers used just like the VW world, (with the uniball spring plate replacement)

[Marc]

...There just isn't a ton of wheel options for 5x130...

True, with that bolt pattern you're mostly just looking at Porsche rims - but there's a plethora of them available, and typically at very reasonable cost. Better quality than most aftermarket rims too...

[ErikTande]

I've got a line on a 1983 Porsche 944 n/t for $500 for the whole car, doesn't run. It seems like a good deal for me to take the rear suspension / brake parts I need and then part out/scrap the rest. Or will it be cheaper to find the parts by themselves? Or should I just buy this thing?

[Marc]

Well, I probably wouldn't pay more than half of that for just the rear brakes (and then only if they looked nice, i.e. rotors don't need turning)...but if you'd like the option of using the diagonal arms too it should be worth it to you provided it's not going to be a hassle getting rid of the hulk when you get everything you want from it. There'll be some spacers there too I would think. Those can be spendy, if the stock ones are the right width for your application there's value there too. The rims probably wouldn't sell for much but there are other goodies from the car (electrical components, for example) that should eventually sell on eBay...
Be sure you get a clear title or at least paperwork to prove it's not stolen, you'll need documentation before they'll accept it if you decide to take the remains over the scales.

[helowrench]

Rear torsion bars should also be slightly thicker than what you have.
Now, for outside the box thinking.....
the Speedo should hook up directly to your cable, and the entire gauge cluster would look cool in a bug
The seats would be easy to mount
Those wheels are worth a buck or two.

If I had an opportunity local for that kind of deal, I would grab it.

[helowrench]

I would actually use the entire hubs brakes rims setup off of that 944

[ErikTande]

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 5#p1106365

What's the rear setup in that post? ^^

He said he pulled the backing plates off of a 944 in that thread, I'm not sure what the rest of the rear suspension is though.

I would actually use the entire hubs brakes rims setup off of that 944

Yeah, I might grab it just for that reason. I figure I take the brakes, wheels and anything else useful and that's nearly worth the $500 right there.

I still need to figure out what I actually need (detailed parts list) to do the brakes and rear suspension swap though. Clearly if I can't even put a comprehensive list together I'm not going to get far on the actual swap.