Lowering my avenger front

[681tonburb]

I'm getting ready to work on my avenger chassis again . I have a tube frame with Porsche 944 turbo rear arms and brakes .
I need to have the adaptors made for the front brakes and before I do I have to make my mind if I want to use the stock spindals or lowering spindals. My car sits almost perfect but it could use about 2 in of drop to set just right.
I read all of this threadhttp://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 9&start=45 and it looks to me that an adjustable beam will be the way to go for my needs is this correct ? Is there any reason I should go with drop spindals ? Price wize the beam may be a little cheaper to set up but unless some one gives me an unbelievable deal its not going to make a big cost diffrence.
Other then the aluminum rear arms and 944 adjustable rear parts I havent changed any thing . for torstion bars and anti roll bars I still have the bug parts since there is so much difference in weight I wasn't sure if I should make any changes until I try the stock bug parts first. I have been kicking around the idea of coil overs but after reading hear I really don't see an advantage going that way.

[Marc]

Drop spindles are the way to go. With them you avoid all of the issues inherent in the adjustable-beam setup (bumpsteer problems, balljoint overtravel, etc.) ...and they still take stock-length shock absorbers. Only stock shocks have provision for bump snubbers, too, which protect the balljoints & upper control-arm bushings and ease the transition to understeer in hard cornering maneuvers - a good set of stock "oil" shocks with snubbers works great for the street.

I run a White Line front swaybar on my daily driver and love it for its adjustability. Not so crazy about the way it sometimes hits the center grubscrew on the beam, making a scarey noise ...but they aren't available anymore anyway. I presume your car will be fairly light and you'll be running narrower rubber up front, so a stock swaybar may well be all you need - I'd start out with that, anyway, and only upsize to a 3/4" if the car is terminally ass-endy and it can't be cured by lowering the front tire pressure.

A "zero-dollar" option to get it on the road with slightly less drop (say, ~1" or so) would be to simply yank the 12 small leaves out of the torsion stacks. They aren't responsible for holding the control arms on like the full-width ones are and are only there to increase the spring rate. "Snubber" shocks are still mandatory IMO with this setup (and fortunately stock shocks are still just short enough), and the handling near the limit is going to be less than ideal, but the price is right

The LH inner tierod end has a slight angle built-in, to keep it from binding at the droop limit. When you use an adjustable beam or pull leaves, the steering arm on the spindle can end up so high in relation to the Pitman arm that binding occurs on compression. Check for this at the extremes of travel and if necessary substitute a "straight" tierod end - or simply turn the tierod around to put the crooked end outboard - and check again).

BTW, I'm running 944T rear brakes (and 5x130 PCD) too. All I did up front was to redrill and stud 'Ghia rotors for the Porsche bolt pattern. Still need spacers, both front & rear, since the Boxter rims I'm using have too much backspace for inner-sidewall clearance. Rather than pass-throughs with ridiculously long studs I'm using bolt-ons, so my Bug has 40 lugnuts total
The front-to-rear balance (using a stock master cylinder) seems perfect to me, although it might not be if the tire sizes were less staggered.

[681tonburb]

My car sits high to other avengers in the front . if you look at this one I like the way it sits and it is all stock . my car sits a lot higher in the front .maybe I had it lower in back http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... &start=120
Its possible once its on the new chassis it may sit lower. Since I'm using the tubo 944 brembos on the front I only want to have to do it once the work for the front 944 brakes is expensive if I didn't already have the parts I think I would have went willwood .

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I agree with Marc that dropped spindles are the best way to go. Using adjusters you can run into the problem that you might need to shim the lower tube of the beam to get the front end caster to align; shimming kits will consist of two shim pieces and two longer bolts. Lowering the rear also should ease this potential... maybe!

If you do go the adjuster way (you can combine the dropped spindles with the adjusters) there are two styles: AVIS and the Sway-a-way style. The AVIS style is easier to install but they have been known to loosen up so you should keep an eye on them.

The Sway-a-way style requires some cutting and welding but they are more of a heavy duty setup. The Sway-a-way adjusters come in two styles: one for K&L and the BJ style. A piece of advice: the instructions in the kits for K&L and BJ and the online instructions cover both styles of adjusters so take the time to read them then mark out the portions of the instructions that apples only to the style of suspension that you are not working with. It will save you a lot of time and heartche.

Lee

[681tonburb]

The chassis I have should make it easy to shim if I need to. The frame head is basicly four tubs with the same mounts they use on sand rails.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Interesting. If the clamps are installed farther towards the outer ends of the beam the beam should be more stable and that is good.

[681tonburb]

I'll have to check just how much there out. But I was thinking I can move the steering box over some to make the tirods more even in size or I have more room for a rack and pinion

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I think it is time for some picures . A R&P would be a nice thing to have and it would be more balanced. Will there be a problem with steering shaft to cross over to the rack w/o problem such as the fuel tank?

Lee

[681tonburb]

This is the only pic I can get now photo bucket is not letting me in for some reason. I'm building a new stand for it now with all thread bar so that I can make a way to easily level it as I work on it. I'm going to use a fuel cell so I should have some flexibility there. I've been looking at 1985 cavileir rack and pinions there center steer and set up for behind spindal so it should work. Even thought of an a arm front but I have so much in the Porsche and bug parts I think it will be easier to just go this way now.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Nice!

Did you make the frame or or was it purchased? Is is a shortened version of the VW pan or full length? Which ever, it looks like a good start on a build.

If you don't mind, some advice. Get a three ring binder and start a build book. Where I live the state is very tight on a build and to get it titled you have to prove everthing with recepts. On the recept write what it was for and the date then scan it.; after scanning then put the receipt in a folder/envelope so when and if needed you have both the receipt and the what it said. The new recepts are heat sensitive and will start to fade and by the time you need it you have... nothing. The build book it also good for if you move out of state and need to retitle in it in that state plus it is also good for the next owner. It looks like you have a build string on the Samba (aka TOS here) so in the build book mark down the URL for the build. The build there, or here, will show a timeline also which could also help.

I would also make a section for thoughts on what you want to do and accomplish. It is fun to see at the finish all the changes in direction you may make.

Please keep us in mind as you do things as who knows, you may come up wiht something someone else might want to use also.

Lee

[Marc]

If you decide to go R&P, first choice would be a "center-load" box so the tierods remain as long as possible. The ideal length for the tierods on these beams is infinite, anything shorter demands some compromises. The factory did a pretty good job of designing the stock steering linkage to limit bumpsteer as much as they could at normal ride height, and drop spindles don't disrupt that geometry. Note how the Pitman arm end is canted to make the leverage different from side to side, if you move the stock box that should be altered too.

The need for caster shims arises any time the front of the chassis is lowered more than the rear, by any means (including drop spindles and even smaller tires). With the chassis level you may still opt for them to improve straight-line tracking on the highway - the tradeoff is increased steering effort when parallel-parking. It's possible that our chassis may already have a little more caster "built-in" if its mounting points hold the beam less vertical than stock.

[681tonburb]

Its a Dave Barrett frame I use to live down the road from his brother and he made it for me. He use to use this pic on his website to show that he would make just the basics for you . Its full length but all the shifter and brake mounts have been moved to be more avenger freindly. I didn't have him put the torsion tube in at the time because I was thinking of maybe doing something different like a mid engine type 4.
This is actuly my second time building the car. It was stolen a few years back and blown up so I decided instead of rebuilding the engine and fixing the paint from the theves when I got it back I would up date the hole car. It actuly has a customs built car title not easy to get and why I decided to stay VW the vin number they gave me has the SN from the engine in it so its going to be a turbo vw build nowm. I also have an insurance problem to with the custome car title. The build book is a great idea and may help come time to insure it again.

[681tonburb]

The 87 cavalier rack is center steer and it is designed for rear steering arms so it should work perfect if I can find a manual one I have found several power for less then $50 but no luck at all finding a manual one other then new or reman and that is almost $200 and i would hate to drop that much and find out it dosnt work .

[Marc]

Cavalier racks are endload, I thought. That's the more common arrangement for OEM racks, since the resultant shortish tierods are needed for proper geometry on most SL/LA or McPherson strut suspensions. I'm thinking of something like the offroaders use on trailing-arm buggy front ends (SACO 64-1500, for example) which'll allow the longest tierods possible... those start at ~$400, but would definitely work (and there'd be a resale market for it if you ever decided to go with a more radical suspension layout like Eyeball Engineering's.)

[681tonburb]

Ya you have to get the 1987 or earlier one. Here is a pick of a manual on a 54 Chevy and a pic of a power rack