Link pin to Ball joint conversion questions

[DBUG Nist]

Hello all I have a tube frame buggy with a subaru motor in it and I like the amount of power it puts down but what i dont like is the entire front of the buggy, the link and king pins have a large amount of play along with the bearings and thats for both sides and its quite dangerous when I go down the road for testing the buggy out. Also the steering wheel has about 8 inchs of play im not sure the exact amount but its enough for anyone to be scared to drive the thing. I've tried to adjust but nothing seems to work well by the time i go through trying to fix everything I was almost considering switching to a ball joint assembly since I am more familiar with that setup and i will not be taking it off road. The most off road it will be doing is a dirt driveway or something to that matter. now my question is whats the difference between the two and can I swap them out without any problems or should i stick with what I have. I have some pictures of the car theres eight bolts and the entire front can come out.

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^ The U style cups is whats bolting the front on there is two on this side with four bolts and it is symmetrical on the other side

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[Ol'fogasaurus]

What I am seeing is a pretty common rail with tire steering comonents and a powerful motor and you are right, it is dangerous.

Ball-joints are a little less complicated but then there is the problem that the torsion tubes between the K&L and BJ beams are about 2"closer together in the BJ beam when compared to the K&L beam. The spinde spud on the BJ spindles are larger in diameter than the K&L spindle spud.

Since you are not planning on going off-road much I think it would be easier to just rebuld everything you have back up to specs. If you did anything then maybe step up to Combo spindles which would probably require brake change due to the larger dia of the spindle's spud. I advise that as you have more power and weight than the stock units are designed to handle.

I would not try to adjust the steering box: if things are that worn in the rest of the beam then the worm gear in the steering box is most likely worn that bad too. Usually in the center/straight ahead area of the box due to the sawing of the steering wheel back and forth when driving straight ahead so that it you adjust it there (in the worn area) it could be set too tight else where and the box itself in the worst situation could break.

The tire-rods and ends probably need to be upgraded at the same time as they are also pretty tired. Inspect all before you do it though or just for safety sake do it all.

You might want to check the angle the beam sits at with the wheels and tires (front and rear) you will be running so you make sure that the caster will be OK.

I would also up-grade the shocks to better than OEM syle shock mostly for safety.

Lee

My opinion is worth slightly less tha you paid for it.

[DBUG Nist]

Thanks for the info. so the beams between the struts that run parallel to each other are short by 2 inches? I figured everything would be seized in the link and king pins the bearings are shot and no doubt about the steering box with the worm gear. so my next question is price isn't a huge factor it is a little bit but i figure to same me time and the hassle of seized up parts just buying a stage 3 beam it literally comes with everything besides the spindles so then i would just have to get bearings. It also comes with a new steering box i believe they're about 600 and some change. Just get the same set up and bolt it right in and tinker with the old one and see if i can figure it out. I just want to get this thing on the road without dying lol... heres a picture to what it looks like

beam_lp_adj_stg3.jpg

Now another question if anyone could give me a link for front disk brakes that would be great because theres a ton of kits and i Dont want to order the wrong kit either

[GoMopar440]

I thought the ball joint beams had the two mail large horizontal tubes set farther apart that the king & link beams? Or are your referring to the vertical mounting brackets that bolt to the original hammer head part of the Bug frame? I'm still learning this stuff so please pardon my ignorance if I have it all mixed up.

Either way, the stage 3 beam you posted would work fine since it's the same type (king & link) as what you have on your rail now.

[Dale M.]

I thought the ball joint beams had the two mail large horizontal tubes set farther apart that the king & link beams? Or are your referring to the vertical mounting brackets that bolt to the original hammer head part of the Bug frame? I'm still learning this stuff so please pardon my ignorance if I have it all mixed up.

Either way, the stage 3 beam you posted would work fine since it's the same type (king & link) as what you have on your rail now.

You are correct...

Dale

[DBUG Nist]

thanks for the info and Im really new to the old style Vw layout. So if I don't say the term correctly please correct me. but now that i know that anyone have any good front brake options for this setup? and I know what i really need to get now is a vw manual but the problem is my buggy is a bunch of different type of vw parts I have IRS with a type 1 super beetle trans with a freeway flyer but i doubt the shocks are the stock ones the rears are weird i think they are from an f-150 it has motorcraft CF11P1A so i guess i need to find a good manual to use for this because i dot want to buy the wrong one.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Since you have a tube frame that clamps the beam in place a couple quick measurements should tell you if you are in trouble or not. When sitting on the wheels and tires you plan on using check the payback of the beam. As I remember it should be something like 6 degrees. This is important for alignment... straight line tracking.

Shocks, because this is street use, is going to be a tougher choice. You will have a heavy rear load and a very light load in the front so the balance will not be std VW. There is a site I used called eshocks and he was a big help.

Some of the shock sites might have tech service you can count on but I think I would stay with a performance shock company like Koni, Bilstein, King, KYB just to name a few that quickly came to mind. Shocks, better described as dampeners, are way to important to just use unknown off the shelf goodies and it is the control of your suspension that you want. It is the valving that is the important thing here.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

What is your wheelbase?

There is something else to consider. With no real weight in the front, after you try the two torsion beam and if it feels too stiff there also might be the option of removing the upper torsion bar stack and go to a through rod, and supporting pieces, allowing the lower bar to do the work. There are also 15 percent torsion bar stacks available.

I am thinking about doing this myself but taking it a step at a time.

Lee

[DBUG Nist]

I cant figure out what the shocks are off of i just know motorcraft is usually ford i think.. i tried typing in the numbers towards the bottom of the shock and had no luck at all so if i can figure that out ill probably get new good street performance shocks heres a picture of the number

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my wheel base is maybe 6 feet once i go out to the garage ill get the exact measurements. but Im not exactly sure what the torsion bar is on this car sorry for the embarrassing novice question but id rather know exactly what you're talking about instead of guessing and having no idea. im new to the old vw's but im starting to like how cheap parts are compared to other cars lol

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Pix of what you have might help.

Wheelbase in a stock VW is around 95 inches give or take. More power like a water pumpers conversion work better with a longer wheel base. On the sand it is usually said that a wheel base you might be talking about would start in the 95 to 103 inches and go up from there. My 80 inch wheel base glass buggy would have a tendency to be a bit squirrly with your setup but... what I said is not a hard fast rule either as people do get away with quite a lot.

[DBUG Nist]

okay i measured it and it's 8 feet so about 96 inchs from center of the axle to center of the axle so then I have a pretty good set up?? im doing the front end king pins and link pins and to my surprise literally all the tie rod ends are shot i can move them easily any direction i want and thats all of them.. cleaned the link pins and shims but havnt been able to get the king pin out yet. heres a picture of the rear shock set up its a little different then most buggies i think. the mounting for it is the same as the top and bottom

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[Ol'fogasaurus]

For around town that should be OK; pretty standard for older kits; easy maneuvering in tight corners or spaces. Full out pedal to the medal then the front could get light on you so be gentle at least until you know your rail.

Lee

[DBUG Nist]

cool thanks lee do you have any idea what shocks those are from?

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Forth try at posting this.



I did some editing on your photo as it kind of looked like the upper shock bolt might be sitting at an angle. If not, Ignore this but even then you could have the wrong sized bolt matched up to the wrong eye of the shock. Not sure about the bottom shock mount though.

http://blindchickenracing.com/How_to/CV ... ts_101.htm

This should help you with CV angles based on what you are running. If you are running stock Type I CVs then the max angle is 12 degrees.

What you need to do it put your rail up on stands making sure it is level then start measuring for the length of shock you need. You must get a measurement of the lower shock stud at full hang and a measurement of the same eye at full compression. You will want to add 1/2 inch to the shock's travel at full hang and add a half an inch of travel at full compression. This is so the shock doesn't keep bottoming out at these positions and beat itself apart. This is a very rudimentary description of what you really need to do. Guessing is a rich mans sport; us'n poor guys can't afford to do it.

Lee

Edit, could you get a better picture of the upper shock mount. Not sure but you might want to add some structure there.

L

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I tried to edit the photo to get the numbers on the shocks but the maker/brand is so fuzzy it would not appear and it looks like not all the numbers can be seen as they wrap around the shock too far.

See if the numbers on the other shock are in as bad shape.