Is it going to leak?

[Big Ratfink]

I'm putting together a stock 1600 for my daughter. Yesterday I put the heads on and today I realized I forgot the cylinder cooling tin. I popped off the heads and put in the tin and I noticed that one of the jugs had pulled out a bit. I had used Permatex ultra black to seal the cylinders. I really thought the Ultra Black would have glued them in pretty good- big surprise. I did go ahead and re-torque the heads afterwards.

I know what Murphy's law says about the probability of a leak, but in real life, what's the real odds of an oil leak?

I really wasn't excited to pull it all back apart, clean it and re-seal it, but if the consensus says leak, that's what I'll have to do.

[Marc]

I feel your pain. Odds are it'll be fine (or at least, the oil leak will be minor enough to live with). Not long ago I faced a similar dilemma, I'd used 311 (1600) pushrod tubes when the 113 (1200) tubes would've been the wiser choice due to the amount - nearly .200" - that had been flycut out of the heads I chose. Had there'd been time, I would've yanked the heads back off but I was in a rush to get ready for the run to Sturgis - so I just packed some expandable "repair" tubes & seals and crossed my fingers
I just got home from a ~4000mi roadtrip and miraculously the over-compressed p'rod tubes/seals never leaked a drop.

IMO the odds are in your favor, and I wouldn't be overly paranoid....worst-case, if it DOES leak it shouldn't be significant.

I haven't much experience with the Permatex Ultra Black, but all the reports I've heard to date indicate that you should be good. Personally I put a light film of Curil K2 on the p'rod tube seals, and that hasn't let me down yet. The Ultra Black should be even better from what I've read/heard.

[Big Ratfink]

Well, that's re-assuring.

4000 miles sounds like quite the road trip!

[Marc]

No promises/guarantees of course, but I'd probably risk it.

[Big Ratfink]

I just re-read your response- just to be clear, this was the cylinder to case joint.

I didn't know people used sealer on the pushrod tube seals. I've only had a few VW's but I've never had a leak there

[Marc]

Gotcha, it's a similar situation. So long as no oil contaminated the sealant that you used on the cylinder bases, odds are you'll be fine.

Back in the days of OEM-gasket sets I never used sealant on the p'rod tube seals; aftermarket high-silicone seals are also supple enough to not need glueing as well, but the red or chalky-white Brazilian seals need some assistance in my experience, and it certainly can't hurt in any case.

[Big Ratfink]

Thanks. Tomorrow I'll do the rockers, got to take my time. I'm no expert so I go slow and double check everything.

Thanks for the help.

[Marc]

Most 13/16/1500 heads have a little "moat" machined around the base of the rocker studs where a small O-ring lives to prevent oil migrating past the stud threads and coming out at the underside of the rockerbox. If your heads are the late/replacement style that only have a slight bevelled counterbore at the base of the studs, do NOT use any O-ring/seal there.

Ideally the valve-adjusting screws will be parallel to their valvestem when the valve is at ~50% open. If you find a significant discrepancy you may need to use shims between the rocker stands and the heads to compensate, or even need to find pushrods of different length. Generally, if there are the same number of adjuster-screw threads exposed below the rocker arms as there are above the jam-nut on the adjuster screw it'll be close enough that no further attention in required.

With a bone-stock rebuild you usually avoid any rockerarm-geometry issues, but even then there are several variables which could introduce the need to compensate somehow.

[Piledriver]

Welcome back, Mike!

I have tried Copper-kote at that joint, as well as ultra-copper RTV, permatex #2,#3 and the red Permatex anerobic.
The copper coat is best put on like paint with a small brush, is very thin, and does not cure...
Sort of like #3 aviation permatex but better.
(usually comes in a spray can, but you can shoot a bit in a paint can lid and allow it to thicken a bit)
Due to its ease of cleanup and reseal capability, Copper-kote should probably be the preferred sealant there, but I have not used it enough times to say if it works better in a general sense. It does work well.

I can say it works great on head gaskets (water cooled)

You have to be careful to only use a smear of RTV on the jugs or case, almost see-through, as due to Murphy's law excess will end up in the oil strainer at best.

(way) Too much RTV has killed two motors of a very experienced race team here very recently.

[Big Ratfink]

I have seen the pictures of the carnage.... it's enough to make a guy reconsider his ways. This isn't the first time I have heard of this kind of problem.

Copper Kote doesn't sound familiar to me- who sells it?

In town here we have O'reilly's, Auto zone, Napa, and Car Quest.

Likewise, I have recently heard about anaerobic sealants which I am not familiar with. I ain't afraid to try them, I just don't recall noticing them at the local store. What do you like for sealing case halfs? If I can order it and get it in a couple days I think I might just tear the block down, clean everything , and reseal.

So why does it seem like everyone has gravitated away from Permatex Aviation Sealant for case Halfs?

This project is for my daughters first car (71 super beetle) and I as much as possible I want to make sure stupid stuff (like RTV where it doesn't belong) does not cause problems.

And yes, this time I tried sealing the case halfs with Ultra Black. I'm already regretting it.

[Big Ratfink]

K&W Copper Kote is available at O'reilly's , pick up in store for cheap.

[Big Ratfink]

Permatex Anaerobic Flange Sealant, 50ml, good for 300 degrees, O'reilly part # Part # 51531 - $34.99 - Holy Crap! Is this the right stuff? $23.69 on Amazon with free shipping.

This seems pretty expensive for half a cc.

[Big Ratfink]

Opps, my bad math - ml = cc. I guess maybe that stuff isn't as expensive as I was thinking.

[Piledriver]

The #2 or #3 permatex have a ~finite life expectancy.

I have considered using Copper-Kote on case halves but have not tried it, not have I ever heard it recommended.

The Prematex anerobic was suggested by Jake Raby many years ago and supplied with his engine kits...and it works well, just remember to spooge a little on the threads to seal the nuts.

If you put the case halves together with RTV... yes, you want to pull it apart.
Absolutely no fun to clean off, and you can easily damage the case.
Never use RTV on the case halves. RTV is great for what its good for, but ACVWs are generally not that thing.

The rule with any sealant:A little goes a long way.

The advantage of the anerobic is that it doesn't dry or cure until you stick the bits together, and that if it gets into the case it remains liquid and will mix/disperse in the oil, rather than turning into giant rubber worms.
It also has the consistency just a little thicker than regular waffle syrup, (not real maple syrup, thicker) so it goes on thin.

It's used AS gaskets on some newer cars.

Mind, if you stick the case together and then remember to add lifters halfway through the torque sequence, you are probably cleaning and reapplying the sealant, as once the two halves hit it sets up pretty quickly.

If not fully cured brake cleaner will make it curl up and fall off.
Once heat cycled its not much less fun than getting rtv off, but still easier.

[Big Ratfink]

Thanks. When I applied the Ultra Black on the case I did go thin, but after close inspection, probably not quite thin enough.

Another thing about the RTV that was lingering in the back of my mind is does it squish out enough to not affect the clamping force on the main bearings? The wife says I over-think things and worry too much. She might be right.

I'll give the Anaerobic sealer a try. If it's good enough for Jake, it''s good enough for me.

Actually if it wasn't for my daughter I'd probably run with it and trust the strainer to catch the bigger stuff. I did full flow this case.

I'll see how Scotch Brite pads do cleaning the RTV off- by hand, not roloc discs.