Crank trigger ignition

[GARRICK.CLARK]

Hi Guys. So after weighing up all my options I'm gonna go distributor less ignition.
Been thinking about it for months.
Never done this before.
1st is the crank trigger kit.
I can get a crank trigger kit from VW Speed shop. Its a 24-1 kit and will work with the CSP bottom pulley.
So if I get this what do I need to get that's compatible with this 24-1 wheel.

[Chip Birks]

Cbs kit is compatible with 36-1 I think. Megajolt is 36-1. Megasquirt can do 24-1, I'm sure AEM ems-4 could probably do it too. If it were me, I'd pick my ignition and then buy hardware to support it, not the other way around.

[buguy]

I would strongly consider buying something that is expandle later when you get sick of messing with carbs. Then you have the management to run fuel as well as spark when your ready.

[V8Nate]

Contact Mario at the dubshop he will set you in the right direction

[Krochus]

36-1 is pretty much THE STANDARD missing tooth count for ignition on a 4cyl. Systems that use anything else are very specialized with little support and will not be as expandable later on should ya want to add fuel control as well

The 36-1 EDIS4 from Ford is a very hot coil that will basically plug and play with megasquirt or Megajolt. A big deciding factor for you might be how many EDIS4 modules you can score from your local pull a part. They’re kinda expensive on the Internet.

36-1 trigger wheels and VR sensors are CHEAP
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 1248393018

[Krochus]

Cbs kit is compatible with 36-1 I think. Megajolt is 36-1. Megasquirt can do 24-1, I'm sure AEM ems-4 could probably do it too. If it were me, I'd pick my ignition and then buy hardware to support it, not the other way around.

I’ve been studying this extensively in anticipation of buying an ECM lately. From what I understand for megasquirt to use a 24-1 signal will be at a logic level output only. Adding a lot more wiring and complexity to the programming because you have to program in the desired dwell.

Whereas if you use 36-1 and an edis module the module does all the work automatically. Plus the EDIS retains a limp home feature of 10 degrees static if it looses communication with the ECM

[Chip Birks]

Cbs kit is compatible with 36-1 I think. Megajolt is 36-1. Megasquirt can do 24-1, I'm sure AEM ems-4 could probably do it too. If it were me, I'd pick my ignition and then buy hardware to support it, not the other way around.

I’ve been studying this extensively in anticipation of buying an ECM lately. From what I understand for megasquirt to use a 24-1 signal will be at a logic level output only. Adding a lot more wiring and complexity to the programming because you have to program in the desired dwell.

Whereas if you use 36-1 and an edis module the module does all the work automatically. Plus the EDIS retains a limp home feature of 10 degrees static if it looses communication with the ECM

I don't think you are correct here. At least not in the MS world I live in. Maybe ms1 on a v2.2 is that sucky, but any of the modern stuff should be able to deal. Pretty much any variant can control coil drivers, which allows you to run pretty much any dumb(2 wire) coil option out there. I will do everything in my power to never use an edis4 module. I connected to the stock Ford coil 10 years ago without the module and had no problems. I just installed 2 coil drivers in the ecu. This required 3 wires to go to the ecu, one crank sensor signal wire, and 2 coil signal wires. The coil also needed power. That was the easy, though slightly uncharted way to go back then, since everybody was just using the edis module garbage. I wanted launch control, edis can't spark cut, that was a deal breaker. Limp home has no benefit on an efi car, having 10 degrees of advance doesn't matter if there is no fuel.
24-1 should be pretty easy to use, unless you are dealing with edis4.

[Krochus]

Now I must admit I am only looking at microsquirt myself and I do believe there is a difference between it and the various megasquirt systems as far as what ignition it can drive by itself

[Chip Birks]

Microsquirt can drive either logic based coils, which are easy to get, there is a really good vw option that petew is using on here. Or you can drive a coil driver and hook to a dumb coil. Still easy. Just like any ms product, its not 100% commited to anything.

[V8Nate]

Looking back I should have never bought it and just went with megasquirt but I did purchase an ignition only setup from nodiz that doesn't require a edis4 module and has all the fancy tuning and rev limiters and what not. If your carbs are dialed in and you only want to go distributorless than it would be good. I see to many advantages with efi in my case so ya live and learn it's only money:)

[GARRICK.CLARK]

Thanks for all the advice guys, Complicated for an ECU newb like me.
Mario does do a type 4.. 36-1 crank trigger kit. So with the 36-1 being the common number I'll go for that.
Its looking like its gunna be a Mario kit really.

Can I ask when the motor is under boost How is the timing retard gonna work.

[Krochus]

I’m not familiar with mario’s System

If it’s like others you will have a grid on your laptop with a bunch of values. One side will be pressure and the other will be rpm.

Every where those intersect you will enter in what you want the timing to be

Timing can go down or it can go up. Just depends on what you want and where.

[GARRICK.CLARK]

Ok cool. I've sent Mario an email, Just waiting for a reply.

[MarioVelotta]

Hey Garrick,

I think your best bet is using a Microsquirt ECU. You can use a crank trigger input and fire a single coil through your distributor (even an MSD box) or go wasted spark with a 4 post logic coil (recommended). You would want to run a MAP sensor so you can adjust timing with boost pressure. You won't need a TPS sensor in a boosted application. This route also allows you to use an air temp sensor. That lets the ECU adjust your timing should the intake temp go over say 160deg F. to prevent detonation and pre-ignition. You can also use a warmup (coolant) sensor, this will add timing after you first start up to help keep a stable idle for the first few minutes and will taper off to your base timing as the heads heat up. These are not necessary but I suggest them for boosted applications.

Below I have posted one of my Type 4 Ignition package quotes. This has all the standard parts I use. The trigger wheel can be removed and you could use the 24-1 from VWSS without issue. That is easy as making a couple of software changes as this is also a complete Fuel control ECU should you choose to add a fuel system and injectors somewhere down the road.

type 4 crank trigger.png

[GARRICK.CLARK]

Hey Thanks Mario. I will be in touch soon and buy this kit off you.
I will have the above without the optional extra's.
Please note I'm in the UK with regards to postage fees .
Regards Garrick