Turbo questions; help

chickensoup · Post by **chickensoup** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:48 am

Hello, the samba is currently down so im using this forum for he first time. Anyways, i am building a efi 1600dp engine for my bug and was wondering if anyone can help me figure out what i need to do to make a strong turbo 1600. Also, what is the max boost i can shove down the throught? im wanting around 10psi for daily use but if i want to add more, how far can i go?

Build so far;
-stock german 69mm crank
-silverline bearings
- Should i stay with a stock cam or something like a w100?
-stock german rods
-light weight lifters
- stock german pushrods
- stock AA performance Piston and Cylinders
- Stock but ported and polished duel port heads
- Should i have my crank and flywheel 8 dowled?
-26mm cb early flat style maxi pump
-fuel injection- gsxr itb homemade set up
-Stock ratio rockers
-swivel feat adjusters

thanks

chickensoup · Post by **chickensoup** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:50 am

oh, and high rev springs

Clonebug · Post by **Clonebug** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:48 am

Welcome to STF,

There are a bunch of us on here running stock 1600 or near stock engines.

I myself have done 3500 miles with a stock 1600 and blow through carb until I found the dreaded "H" case crack behind the flywheel on the #3 cylinder.
I had a 1679cc engine built with 8 doweled stock crank, W-100 cam, stock rockers with swivel feet, solid rocker shafts, HD single springs, stock heads cut for 90.5/92mm, AA 88mm P/C's, 26mm oil pump and full flowed.
I ran that with a carb for another year and 3500 miles before I upgraded to Fuel Injection.

I have about 35,000 miles on the bottom end of this current engine. I have replaced the P/C's a couple times due to blowby. Detonation is the biggest thing with these engines. The AA P'C's.....well... the AA 88mm P/C's.....will handle some detonation but if there is any noticeable blowby then the engine is a ticking time bomb. Increased blowby is usually caused by cracked pistons and they will break after a period of time.....destroying the engine case.

My 1679 was dynoed at 112 whp and 133 lb. ft. of torque at 6.0 lbs. boost. At 10 lbs. boost you could probably add another 20 whp.

Anything over 8-10 lbs. will require quality ignition control and/or Water/Alcohol Injection. 130 degree intake temps are about the limit without retarding the timing a significant amount.

The above is assuming you will do a blow through system......drawthru is a different animal to a certain degree.

Look around and read the various build threads.....my build for ex. is a soap opera read of 8 yrs of messing with a turbo.

Schweg · Post by **Schweg** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:21 am

I just got my EFI set up this year. I’m running 20psi with water methanal injection. Reading clone and Kalle’s builds was a huge inspiration.

I’m on a stock 1600 DP, I haven’t upgraded valve springs even. As clone stated these things will take a fair amount with out a ton of fancy parts. Ignition control is key.

Where are you located? Maybe someone local that can help.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

buguy · Post by **buguy** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:36 am

There is no shortage on information here on doing just what you have planned. If it were me and it was apart, I would definitely 8 dowel it and I would also probably do a W100 cam too.
Really do your homework and have a clear picture of what your goals are before you start. Changing plans in the middle will just cost you time and money.

chickensoup · Post by **chickensoup** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:12 am

thanks for the replys, i plan on building a draw through b/c the gsxr itb's have to have a short intake length i believe. Sorry if this is a stupid question but due to me not having much experience in turbo cars yet im still learning my turbo stuff and was wondering if anyone could help explain to me the difference between draw through and blow through. Well, i know what they are im just wanting to know the pros and cons.

- also, if i buy a w100 cam or a w110 for example, some of these cams require fly-cutting right? so, am i still supposed to flycut the head for these types of cams even know my goal is to try to have as low of a cpr as possible?

-last question for now. So if i end up scrapping the motorbike itb idea, then would you guys recommend or even know of a truck or car itb?
thanks

chickensoup · Post by **chickensoup** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:19 am

DARNIT!

, i meant to say blow through not draw through... sorry

Clonebug · Post by **Clonebug** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:45 am

chickensoup wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:19 am DARNIT! , i meant to say blow through not draw through... sorry

If you look at the upper right of your post there are two icons there. One is for quoting a reply and the other is to edit your post. Click the "edit" icon and you can fix your post most any time.

chickensoup · Post by **chickensoup** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:18 am

Got it... thanks

buguy · Post by **buguy** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:01 am

I think it would be pretty tough to blow through 4 throttle bodies. Of course where there's a will, there's a way! I would make it easy on yourself and blow through a single throttle body. Much easier, cheaper, and less packaging.
And to me, it wouldn't be worth going turbo efi without blow through. There is so much to learn, I wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel here. Read tons here and pick a build that seems to fit your needs and simply replicate it.
No reason to flycut, build it to whatever it takes to get your CR where you want it. Seems like most are in the 8.0:1 range. Typically lower compression means you can run more boost, but it's weaker when off boost. More compression usually means you can't run as much boost, but is snappier off boost. All depends on what your after.
Really all you would need for a TB is something around 2"/50mm. Getting a factory VW FI intake and TB might be the simplest way to go. Take a look at a build by Clonebug. His is well thought out, he made smart and economical choices on his build, and has a dyno sheet and tons of miles to prove how well it works.

rubenski · Post by **rubenski** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:04 am

Here are some pics of my setup.

Vw throttle body

Mid mount gearbox

Kaffer bar

Don't really have better pics...

buguy · Post by **buguy** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:54 pm

What size is that TB?

chickensoup · Post by **chickensoup** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:15 pm

I actually have a German fi set minus one if the lower intakes. I really don't like the quality and design of it though. I'd rather use my welding skills on a "pretty" and functional set up. I have to agree now because I'm starting to shy away from the itb idea although the fact that it's a itb makes life so much easier when building intake maifolds.

Clonebug · Post by **Clonebug** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:30 pm

I built my own intake centerpiece from 1 5/8ths tubing across and 2 inch under the TB flange. It was pretty straight forward. The best thing is to use the CB Performance FI endpieces as they accept modern injectors large enough to support the hp a turbo can make.
I was getting over 200 crank hp through them with the stock German TB.
It's all in my build with pictures if you want to bother to look.

There is plenty of info in this forum.
Most of us have tried the easy ways in some form or another with varying degrees of success.

chickensoup · Post by **chickensoup** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:16 am

hey guys, its hard to have the same topic on 2 different forums so if you want to see progress heres the samba link.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... highlight=

Shoptalkforums.com