72 beetle no start when key turned.gen light comes on

[rrb6699]

I want to see what feedback I get on it before I make my guesses.

I had to take this bug off the road for about a year to address bodywork and painting. The car was not running and had a start problem before I took it off the road. It wouldn't start after 20 minutes or more trip if I shut it off. then it wouldn't start at all, so, decided to take it off the road. I had suspected the ignition and starter to be bad so I just replaced the starter yesterday as I'm thinking of getting it running now.

When I turn the key I get the generator light but nothing. The car does not turn over. The headlights seem to be bright. I charged the battery up fully before I tried to start it. I can't get the starter to turn by jumping across the terminals either. I thought that was the good old test to see if it was going to start at all. the engine is not frozen up. I can turn the engine manually.

I get spark on the starter terminals when I cross them with a screwdriver. But it does not turn it either. This car has a pertronix ignition from about 2007. Please forgive my spelling.

I'm thinking I have to replace all of the electronics in the rotor since they've probably are too old now I have been heated up and cool down way too many times. I have new plug wires and plugs and also a new rotor and rotor cap. The spark plugs are new also. The only other thing I can think of is the Blue Max Coil I have. But those rarely fail I think. But I'm not ruling it out.

If you think my electronic ignition should be replaced that's what I'm angling for here if not what else should I check besides doing that which I plan on doing anyway?

[V8Nate]

I would replace your starter since it won't turn over the motor with the key or jumping the solenoid. A starter from an autostick will bolt right up and is a high torque starter

[rrb6699]

you didn't read the post.
starter, wires, rotor/cap, grounds all new wires, plugs, plug wires are ALL new. the battery is fully charged..

unless you suggest that I replace a brand new starter, I can't see why anything electrical in what is new needs replacing.

I think I have a new ignition switch somewhere but hard testing the starter should pop the solenoid right?

I'm sorta out of ideas.

[V8Nate]

Ah I didn't notice the new starter part, I've seen new starters bad right out of the box and jumping the solenoid should definitely get it to turn over. You could try running a ground directly from the battery to the starter but it should still be doing something

[Ol'fogasaurus]

As Nate said, they can come from the factory and not work. If there is any questions then it should be pulled and taken to where you got it and have it checked. It is a simple check (or used to be) where they put/lay it on a field checking tool and, as I remember it made a sound (but I don't remember if that was a good or bad). It takes just a few minutes.

For those who haven't done it before or aren't sure this is about an at home check (its got ads): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x2hIOtBfzE

Lee

[andy198712]

the starter is very simple in that, it takes 12V right of the battery on a thick wire.... and earths through the engine to the chassis then battery.

check your starter is getting 12v on its 12v terminal. and check its earthing with a multimeter from the battery. may need a bit of wire to extend your leads.

if its getting 12v and earthing, and you jump the terminals and it doesn't work.... tap it with a hammer a few times....

if you have poor earth, add a jumper cable from the starter to the negative of the battery to rule that out.

the fact your getting spark at the starter terminals says you are getting voltage, so i would try knocking it with a hammer... failing that the starter should be returned.....

does but not even click?

[rrb6699]

whew. been awhile. worked on a different project so this one sat until now.
as far as I remember it did not click at all.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Again, check out the condition of the woven ground strap and also the ground connection to the driver's side shock tower. The woven ground straps have a long history of being (a pain in the poop-poop) the centurial source of lot of the electrical problems and not just with VWs either.

The starter draws more amperage than the rest of the car so if you are showing signs of other components operating even slightly it is worth the checking.

Also, the battery could be down on power from just sitting as well as being in its last legs. The positive power cable could also be a connection problem at not only at either end but itself failing also.

Lee

This is a bit off subject and just for what it is worth, when I rewiring my Glass bodied dune buggy, I had found out that Bugs (again from what I was told anyway) that the power wire to the ignition switch did not have protection. I was told that the wire had a 55-amp draw potential but when looking for a circuit breaker for protection (at the time anyway) 55-amp circuit breakers were not around at the time. Since this was an off-road rig I didn't have that much draw so I wired in a 50-amp unit. So far it has been working well.

Check the condition of the aging wiring and the connection can age or corrode when not in use for long time.

Lee

[Blu68bugger]

Try a new starter

[rrb6699]

the starter is new.

the groundstrap i changed from the flat (steel?) woven strap to a nice 6 gauge copper braided. i still have the woven strap and it checks out as far as continuity goes. anyway, the battery is good. i charge it up overnight each time i know i'm gonna mess with starting it . the odd this is that sometimes the thing just turns over and will start. i can hand-crank the engine with a socket and it seems free so no binding there.

i may replace the Pertonix electric module as it is old now. (10 years) i do have another problem when i drive for 30 minutes and turn off the car it won't start again until it cools down again. i think it is the Pertronix but not sure.

thanks in advance.

[Piledriver]

You have a no crank/dead starter, without even a solenoid click.
The pertronix has no effect if the engine isn't spinning.

The starter would be suspect&1, ignition switch #2.
Regardless, pick up a hard start kit, the old wiring and connectors aren't up to it when new, its basically a ford
starter solenoid, easier to switch and ends up cranking faster/more reliably.

Are you sure you put the control wire on the correct terminal?
Many starters have a second small terminal that is to send power to coil when the starter kicks in.
Sounds silly but if you are working blind, it happens, I have done it.
Doesn't hurt anything except your pride.

The woven copper grounds straps can ohm out fine and turn to dust when tugged on.
They corrode easily, and they look OK. (Had one on a 76 Rabbit gave me fits for weeks)
Put something on there with protection long term.

[rrb6699]

well the starter is new but has been sitting. i'd guess since i put it in the car was only started maybe 20x. but the starter has been in there 5 years. i did change out all the wiring and put new HD copper ground. i did try all the terminals on the starter and the one it is on is the only one that started it when i did get it started.

i'll have to go with a new battery first.

not sure what you meant by a Hard Start Kit./ Ford starter solenoid.

the wiring under the steering wheel (key switch) i re-did because i thought it was that.,

so the only problem assuming i get all this done is the non-start after driving 30+ minutes. wont start until the engine cools down.

rr

[Piledriver]

A hard start relay is simply an added relay, preferably back by the battery so the power going to pull the starter solenoid in doesn't have to go through 30 feet of old wire, crappy connectors, and the ignition switch. It only has to go ~2 feet. Relay gets power off battery, output goes to starter start connector. You can sometimes use the same wire in a pinch.
the old circuit has a much easier time pulling in the smaller relay, and a properly sized relay will have no issues feeding the starter solenoid. A decent quality relay is essential, but a fog light relay from you FLAPS will work, just buy two.

[rrb6699]

so hard start relay positive to relay to starter?
I rewired all grounds and battery cables with new thick gauge copper. I did shorten the distances quite a bit .

did not mention my bug still has generator. Haven't done the rewire to change to an alternator yet.

plan to to get +10 amps

[Piledriver]

so hard start relay positive to relay to starter?

Yes. try to use "marine" waterproof crimps as they both protect and strain relieve, as well as use good quality crimpers.
A dab of vaseline (or spray paint) after getting a spot of clean bare steel for the ground, setup should go for ages.
Numerous places sell kits, there are youtube videos for install or diy setups.

You can get "marine" hot melt glue lined heat shrink by itself as well.