SSC vs. Rhino for Berg5

[Clatter]

We're gearing up to put together an IRS Berg 5.

This motor won't be used for drag racing, it might happen, but will 99.9% be used on the street by adults (wife).
There might be a couple hundred horsepower involved one day,
but we want it to be quiet, if possible.
The plan includes oiling tricks for long-time highway running.

When filling a box full of nice parts, we want to use the good stuff where it's needed.
Would it be better overall to start with a Rhino case and a pair of heavy-duty side covers,
Or would it be nearly as strong to use a later SSC, a.k.a. "Shift rib" and maybe a double-ring cover?
We do plan on putting in an IRS super diff, unless that might make things noisy or be a waste?

While the Rhino is aluminum vs. mag, the later cases have the bigger (better?) pinion bearing,
Plus, the integrated side cover is stronger too as well, right?
Heard somewhere that some of the Rhino cases have quality/dimension inaccuracies that might make them noisy when used long-term on the street.
All the Berg5s i see are built on Rhinos - is there a reason for that?

Let me know your thoughts, as I've never done Berg5 (yet).

Much thanks,
Steve

[H2OSB]

Hey Clatter. I'm not an expert, but the zig zag case is the strongest T1 style case VW ever made. The Rhino case IS stronger than your typical T1 dsc case, but the casted in gusseting is on the top and should be on the bottom. That said, being aluminum, it's easier to weld in gussets on the bottom if there's any chance of clutch dumping.

If you have access to a ssc zig zag case, I would go with that for the extra strength both inside and out. However, I believe either would be adequate for the task. The Rhino case is pretty.

Regarding the SuperDiff, I've been unable to determine for certain if it's worthwhile to use. Logic tells me having the two extra, supportive spider gears can't be bad, but I've HEARD the cast body of the SuperDiff is not as strong as the factory diff body. Waddle sells a very high end SuperDiff with 091 internals meant for T1 gearboxes that is nearly bullet proof, however, it's cost prohibitive, to the point of making the Peloquin or Quaiffe TBDs a better deal.

On my own Zig zag case gearbox, which will be in a 25/75 autocross/street car, I'm going to take a chance and run a SuperDiff.

Hope this helps
H20SB

[Ian Godfrey]

Like H2OSB i'm not a gear box builder, but my builder also said single side cover Zig Zag case was the best case to use because of the better pinion bearing, so thats what I got. He said it was better than a Rhino aluminium box or Autocraft.
I think the best diff is probably the old ZF LSD or Peloquin. I have a Quaife in my Berg 5 but it needed shims machined to get it to fit properly, quite a bit of work.
'Gears' has new clutch kits to rebuild the ZF's now.
I ran a super diff in my old 4 speed and even after machining it to run true is was always noisy which worried me.

[Casting Timmy]

I'm probably an odd case, well I am. That is a tough decision in some ways as the earlier style case with the smaller pinion bearing has a thrust washer over the inner pinion bearing to protect it. They did the same thrust washer set up on the very first big nut pinion bearings, I have seen NOS of those at least once.

091's a modification is to pocket first gear the thickness of the earlier thrust washer and then machine down the 1st gear race the same amount. You do have to use a short bearing for the first gear idler, but the inner pinion bearing doesn't get shattered with shock loads. I asked about this mod for the T1/002 set ups and was told the race being smaller it doesn't work.

I'd think about keeping it a 4 speed and get the car fast by adding a turbo to the motor!! Turbo's love a load so money saved on the 5 speed conversion could be put towards a turbo. Which would bring you back to wanting more beef in the transaxle......

I wouldn't shy away from an aluminum case or even the Zig Zag case, probably more what you have on hand. I do have a couple 113 big nut bearings I'm saving for myself that I'll use to get the thrust washer over the inner bearing for my own T1 box.

[Bruce2]

All the Berg5s i see are built on Rhinos - is there a reason for that?

You haven't seen mine then!

I know a guy in the UK who went deep into the 9s with a stock zig-zag IRS trans case. The strength of either case is a non-issue for a street driven car like you suggest. The rhino case just adds weight to the wrong end of your car.

You can also use the 091 pinion bearing in the late SSC case. Larger rollers on the diff side where the thrust is.

[Clatter]

You can also use the 091 pinion bearing in the late SSC case. Larger rollers on the diff side where the thrust is.

You mean vs. the 4-bolt early pinion bearing of the rhino, right?
Not as an upgrade to the late Beetle trans.
Same pinion is in the 091 as the 73-up zig zag..
https://weddleindustries.com/products/0 ... 91-311-219

[Bruce2]

You can also use the 091 pinion bearing in the late SSC case. Larger rollers on the diff side where the thrust is.

You mean vs. the 4-bolt early pinion bearing of the rhino, right?
No.....

Not as an upgrade to the late Beetle trans.

.....yes, it's an upgrade for 73-75 transmissions.

Same pinion is in the 091 as the 73-up zig zag.

No. The 091 bearing didn't appear until 76.
A 70-72 trans uses the 113 threaded pinion bearing
73-75 uses the 002 pinion bearing. To use this in a 70-72 trans, you have to leave out the 1st gear thrust washer. What VW did was to make the inner races wider so the inner race becomes the thrust surface for 1st gear.
Then when the 091 bearing came out in 76, the outside dimensions were the same as the 002 bearing, so you don't need to modify anything to use it in a 73-75 trans.
The difference is in the rollers:
The 70-72 bearing uses 10mm long rollers in both sides.
The 002 bearing uses 11mm long rollers in both sides.
The 091 bearing uses 13mm long rollers on the pinion head side and 10 mm rollers on 1st gear side.

The roller lengths above are for FAG bearings. SKF bearings use 10mm rollers for the 002 bearing. I've never seen an SKF 091 bearing.