front end & bumper

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 10:26 am

does anyone have a source for the bits on top of the strut towers: thrust bearing/friction ring, bushings, spacer, etc? Also, whats out there for lower, stiffer springs? Whats used in Neal's car for the springs and tower brace? I would also like to get rid of the enormous energy-absorbing bumpers on the '74, in favor of something a little slimmer. Anyone found a good substitute? thanks

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 2:51 pm

Welcome to bumper hell herr sparky. The type 3 front bumpers from some years did fit ok on some of the early 411's...and the rear of a type 3 (late) fits most...til 74. But other than that, you are SOL. If you have a late model 412...with the little plastic bearing ring on the strut bushings that crack...you are in luck! The strut bearing housing is identical to very late model superbeetle. The rubber bushing and bearing cartridge combination is the same as that for a VW fox. They are about 20 bucks for bearing and bushing each side. I get the rings off of foxes in the junkyards. Use the ones that stretch around the lip of the little metal dish on the fox...they don't break as easily...just use the dish. Keep your inner spacers and upper washers...and keep them in order. While you are at it, replace your idler bushing with the very last model of improved superbeetle idler arm bushing (which uses the same bushing as the 412 generally). It was a dealer installed part...but is still available...presses straight in, in a vice...and is solid bronze-no rubber. Cheaper than the original, doesn't wear out and about 6 bucks cheaper. Major handling improvement. Ray

3rd_slow_411 · Post by **3rd_slow_411** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 2:52 pm

herr_sparky,
First let me say I have not done this, yet. After I move back to St.Pete in January, I will have time to do this. This IS what I am planning for my bumpers. Maybe I?ll get to it before you!!
If you had a Plasma cutter (don?t use acetylene), I should say, if you can borrow one or know of a metal fabricator with one you could try this: remove the bumper and brackets from car, now imagine that you want to remove steel from the rear portion of the bumper (the rear of it, nearest the car) you can burn cut this to make the bumper less deep (thinner in depth, not height) so that it can mount closer to the car. (Visualize your bumper as a 4X4 C-channel in cross section. You can cut it into a 4X3 or 4X2 etc. C-channel.) You can use a marking gauge to transfer the bumper contour to top and bottom surfaces, then cut it off. Then move the ?frame? mounting holes on the brackets so they are closer to the ?bumper? mounting surface. Be careful and measure correctly, dry fitting as you go. Don?t forget to grind / sand the newly cut surface. You will burn the chrome slightly, but anyone with experience will keep this to a minimum, and the blue marks WILL polish out with Blitz polish. Be more worried about the grinding, don?t get into the chrome except to remove cutting slag. You will have less room on the brackets for the horns so they will be more visible, paint them to hide them or go funky with the detail. Overall, this can easily be done and will give you custom bumpers.
If you don?t have fabrication experience, find someone who does, to at least help. Call metal fabricators (welding shops) or machine shops in the yellow pages for referrals, especially the smaller ones, they are ALL looking for business. This shouldn?t be much over 1 hour of their labor, maybe 2. Some may have a minimum price, some may just want a case of beer or pizza!! You can also try trade schools with welding programs.
Clay
PS, I would love to practice on your bumpers first!! Honestly this is very straight forward, you don?t need luck just patience and probably some help.

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:10 pm

I was wondering about changing up the shock absorbent mounting so that the bumper sits in a permanently compressed state. Ever messed with the guts of those?

3rd_slow_411 · Post by **3rd_slow_411** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 7:23 pm

herr_sparky,
Sorry, I didn?t know you had absorbent MOUNTS. I?ve got zero experience with ?em. Could you replace them with a steel mount? The mounts I?ve looked at were on Rabbits or newer. I believe you could compress them and fill them with a thin, flowing epoxy, maybe even polyester resin and it?s available at most hardware stores. They were similar to a coil-over shock (in theory), but more of an inner coil design. Anything can be modified, if you try hard enough. Wish I could help more.
Clay

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 7:49 pm

so the bumpers I may be stuck with, but what can I use for lower, stiffer springs?

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:15 pm

Regis...Lowering a 411/412 looks good, but handles poor. Though the car has a high center of gravity, it has fairly competant suspension. Putting the factory sway bars on will be a world of help. The drilling and mounts are already on the rear cross member and trailing arms. Its a 10 minute job. Drop me a line on my e-mail and I will send you a sketch of a top stub piece that will allow the use of audi 4000s strut cartridges. Use the low pressure KYB GR-2 gas. The high pressure will destroy your front end , but the low pressure is perfect. The stub design will lower the front end a little less than an inch...bring it level with the rear, and giving a small amount of correction to your static castor. The front strut springs on the 411, 412 are actually excellent and way larger than necessary. They are progressive, so they can't be cut without screwing them up. If you can ,switch to blue series springs from the yellow , if you have a wagon (thats the paint mark code near the top of the spring) They only use about 1/2 of the available travel on the struts. the weak part is the stock oil strut cartridge. It is way under-damped. Without the bi-directional control qualities that gas cartridges give you, they are not an active part of body roll control. The low pressure gas are. Ray