help

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 7:07 pm

first things first: when I say "fan housing" I mean the actual fan body that would have the timing marks on it; "notch" means a longitudinal groove indented into the fan housing; OK. just so we all know what I mean when I name names. I cant get my '73 wagon timed correct to save my life. I have four different books that seem to describe four different ways. My fan housing has two pairs of markings: a notch and about an inch or two counterclockwise is what appears to be a "0". The second pair of these markings is exactly 180 degrees opposite on the fan housing. No red or black paint. Whats what? Ive been tweaking with the distributor for a long time and finally removed it to check the trigger contacts and such, and now it wont start. I freed up the breaker plate with WD40 to get it as smooth rolling as possible, replaced the points and condenser, cleaned everything, reinstalled it, and timed with a static timing light over and over. The engine cranks, fires one or two cylinders, but never runs. The trigger contacts check out with the ohmmeter and all connections have been checked for cleanliness and tightness. One thing thats clearly wrong is the centrifugal advance: a clockwise twist of the rotor does not return under spring pressure. it stays put any way you turn it. Can anyone tell me about the timing marks on the fan and what they really mean? Is my distributor shot? the trigger contacts themselves move okay when pushed by hand, but one of them has noticeably more friction than the other. All this is especially maddening since the car started and would run alright before I opened everything up. thanks thanks

Roland Kunz · Post by **Roland Kunz** » Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:15 am

Hello

Where to start ?

EA engine is D-Jetronic

Trigger contacts:

Get a Ohmmeter and messure if both circuits have a similar resistance closed and then you messure the duration angle.
Important is that they open and close everything else counts not while start and idle and will only affect smothness and high rev behaviour.
You also can hook up two LED´s into the circuits and see if they blink up while starting. Those leds can also be fitet to the injector groups ( easyer to fiddle ).

Next step is finding TDC Cyl 1. Now with the distributor pulled you might be 360° crank duration off. The simplest is remove the spark and put in a hose from a leak down tester then set the distributor to TDC 1 and your leak down musst be under 20% if not you are on wrong TDC. If no leak down or other tool is aviable then check how the valve are at TDC. Both closed ? then OK, one open ? then not OK.

After that check your breaker contact for 0,4 mm gap and if the sliding plate will work. Also time to check the vacuumcanisters. Then set the Ignition static to TDC 5°Btdc would be better but just TDC and try if it starts up.

If yes then get your timing light.
If it is fixed then hold it into the hole and turn the distributor untill you can see the 5° BTDC mark ca. the rear edge from one fan blade off TDC ( TDC is between two blades ). Clamp dist and let the engine idle check the dwell and after some minuts rev to 3000/min and see if the distributor will go up to 27 BTDC. This is the timingmark will wander farer right ( clockwise ) untill the midle from a fanblade and a big bossed area where the screw from the beltring is boltet to the fan.

If you ain´t see any timing marks you have to remove the rubberboot and check if you have a bus fan with the marks on the front edge.

Grüsse

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:59 pm

Ill check tonight whether the marks are between fan blades or not. Id rather not pull a valve cover to check TDC, but I dont have a leakdown tester either. Wouldnt a compression tester do the trick? Interesting about being 360 degrees off, hadnt thought about that. I just read a message on another thread about someones engine only showing "0" and 27 BTDC. Any idea how far apart these markings would be on the fan, maybe by the number of fan blades apart? Also: today I opened the distributor up and the mechanical advance was totally seized in place. Its cleaned and polished now, moving freely. the little washers under the weights crumbled away, and one of the textured, fiber shims on the shaft broke too. And I was wrong about the markings, there is only one pair, I was judging by the number of turns of the rotor.

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:53 am

Sparky, your distributor is slightly rusty...but not shot. You nee to carefully remove the springs on the centrifugal adavance, after you remove the breaker plate, and the shaft circlip under the felt wick in the shaft. Take it apart and clean out the gunk and rust. Use a 1/4" long reach socket and a mallet to drive the circlip back into place on reassembly. Your timing sounds too retarded. If the fan is mounted on its locating pin correctly..."0" is TDC. The mark 180 degrees opposite is one someone made to designate TDC for #2 and #4 cylinders during valve adjustment. The mark on the fan to the right of "0" is 27 degrees BTDC..which is what it should read at 3500 rpm...with timing strobe...hoses on. Turn engine to "0" in the v-notch. make sure the rotor is pointing at the #1 mark on the distributor. Pull the right side valve cover and check that both valves are closed on #1. This ensures that you distributor is not installed 180 degrees out. Loosen the clamp, and turn the distributor counterclockwise...so that the mark is lined up on the trailing edge of the rotor tip (remembering that it turns clockwise)...thats about 10 degrees static advance. That should get you started, so you can time it properly. Ray

Roland Kunz · Post by **Roland Kunz** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:19 am

Hello

Yes the Komprssiontester will do. Just insert the hose and put your finger at it as long you feel air prssing out you are in the comprssionstroke BTDC and when the prssure trops you are close to TDC yet the piston is on the turnover to go back.

Cam and Inginition turn with half Crankspeed. So the enginecycle is 720° and you have TDC twice. Once with the valves open and the other with the valves closed.

If your dist is turned by 360° just swap the wires by 180° to test out. ( 1-4-3-2 )

AFIR the 0° and the 27° mark are 43 mm apart messured on the bow.
VW delivered the fan with only the TDC marks as a spare part and the mechanic had to make the suiting ignition markings.

A other trick is to look at the 3 monting screws the right one is prolonged from the middle among the outher edge nearly 27° as well.

Grüsse

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 4:31 pm

excellent. cleaned the distributor, everything is turning fine now. thanks for the timing mark info, that clears up a lot of mystery. Still cant start it, so tonight Ill try replacing the cap and rotor, plugs, wires, and anything else I can think of, it was about time anyway. All this work and the real project car is sitting outside in the rain, untouched for days now. man I cant wait to drive that thing. All the hydraulics are fresh and bled, I just need to square away the struts and springs. thanks for the help

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 10:52 am

no luck. checked valves with the cover off and both are closed. checked coil, plugs, wires, condenser, points, rotor. no start. voltage over 9V when cranking. everything is dry and clean, I cant explain it.

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:06 pm

Are you injecting at all? Having taken the triggers out, were you careful to put the original length screws back in? If not , longer ones will ground the triggers every time. Preventing injection. Also check your head temp. sensor connection. What are you static timed at? Ray

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 5:03 pm

the screws did get mixed up sitting there on the bench...
the static timing is hard to tell by degrees, but the trailing edge of the rotor is lined up with the No. 1 notch on the distributor rim, at TDC. Ive also tried several different angles of the rotor/notch with no improvement.

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 8:15 am

Do a basic spark check...see if the plugs are visibly sparking. If so, It sounds like you are getting no injection. I would bet that you have some grounding or connection problems. Ususally the main ground bundles at the case centerline, or grounding of the trigger point assembly. Ray

herr_sparky · Post by **herr_sparky** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 5:12 pm

yeah, I checked all FI ground connections, and changed the screws in the triggers too. I rigged up a remote start wire and cranked the engine while holding each plug wire to the crankcase, all sparking. Ive run a complete valve adjustment & static timing, and continuity checks for the points, condenser, etc. the only thing I havent done yet is pull out an injector to see if its actually squirting out fuel. Im just trying to keep the number of systems that I disturb to a minimum. At this point I might as well.