Lead Free Fuel

Gavin · Post by **Gavin** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:25 am

I have a dual port 1600.
Is it okay to run lead free fuel or do I need to do something special

fonz · Post by **fonz** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:09 am

From what I've heard, any engine with twin port heads will run fine on unleaded, without any mods at all.

kubelkid66 · Post by **kubelkid66** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:07 am

if you want your car to love you and get up and go when ever you need it too..

USE the goods....Only run good gas..
92 or 93 ...octane why settle for less..
Clean...gas leads to a happy car...AND keep your fuel filters clean too..

------------------
Kubelkid66
....\/....
.....\/\/.....

Post by **Marc** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:20 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by kubelkid66:
92 or 93 ...octane why settle for less..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Running higher octane than an engine needs to suppress detonation may make you feel good but it does nothing for the engine. No stock Type I engine should need more than 89 (R+M)/2 fuel, and if the compression ratio is lower than ~7.5:1 87 is sufficient.

j_c_hamilton · Post by **j_c_hamilton** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:53 am

The only specification I've ever seen is the recommedation sticker inside my fuel flap which says 91 RON minimum. Unfortunately, all the pumps in my area only post the R+M/2 number, and if you ask the staff you get a well rehearsed blank stare.
When we went to unleaded in 1991, I started using premium and never looked back, never had a problem.
At most it would cost me $4.00 (Canadian) more over regular for a bone dry tank. At a tank and a half per month average, I'm willing to spend $6.00 for piece of mind.
Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
92 Octane's anti-knock properties also allow me a little more flexibility when tuning my engine. For years now, I've set my timing with a vacuum gauge instead of a timing light. I keep an eye on my plug colors, but I have no idea what the timing's at right now. It goes against my mechanical instincts, but I feel this gets me through emissions inspections more easily, gives me the peppiest acceleration response, and provides for smoother idling on cold wet days after the choke has opened, but before the engine has fully warmed up. Less blipping the throttle at red lights.
But that's just me.

------------------
Jason Hamilton
The Online Karmann Ghia Resource
1969 & 1970 Type 143

Post by **Marc** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:09 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by j_c_hamilton:
For years now, I've set my timing with a vacuum gauge instead of a timing light.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

{{{{{{Shudder}}}}}}

kubelkid66 · Post by **kubelkid66** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:37 am

man Im with jason...
Good gas=anti-nock..
A little rich is better than A little lean...
Pluss you get a good buzz too.lmao.mmm FUEL..

LMAO....

------------------
Kubelkid66
....\/....
.....\/\/.....

j_c_hamilton · Post by **j_c_hamilton** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:28 pm

Why a shudder? It works.
Been doing it for years without a problem.

------------------
Jason Hamilton
The Online Karmann Ghia Resource
1969 & 1970 Type 143

Post by **Marc** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:56 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by j_c_hamilton:
Why a shudder? It works.
Been doing it for years without a problem.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I believe it is the factory-recommended method (at the Massey-Ferguson factory, anyway).
I would expect that your final timing setting will be several degrees, maybe more, overadvanced - in which case you should definitely continue to spend too much for your gas. http://www.hotrodders.com/cgibin/ubb/15/000594 http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/bgbb/7/ecep/auto/h/h.htm

j_c_hamilton · Post by **j_c_hamilton** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:16 pm

Oh, I'm the first to agree it's an old school technique, and I'll further contend that it's slightly less fuel efficient.
But it does enhance driveability, and that's the reason I do it.
It's fair to say I'm more concerned about enjoying my drive rather than how much it's costing me.

------------------
Jason Hamilton
The Online Karmann Ghia Resource
1969 & 1970 Type 143

kubelkid66 · Post by **kubelkid66** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:41 pm

I'm more concerned about enjoying my drive rather than how much it's costing me.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes sir..MY school of thought..Right there.

------------------
Kubelkid66
....\/....
.....\/\/.....

68Ghia · Post by **68Ghia** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:49 pm

I have to side with Mark on this one. I used to do that with my plane until I found out that the 0-320E2D Lycoming was designed to run on 80 Octane gas. Money out the exhaust!

phrankentruk · Post by **phrankentruk** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:51 pm

Well it's a little more complicated than that. 91 RON is about the same as 87 (R+M)/2 but remember, the gas had lead in it back then. The lead helped cool the engine and prevent detination.
Also, the engine can run just on the verge of detination and develop hot spots, elevating temperatures, burning valves, warping heads, and causing other problems without ever hearing a ping. I'm not talking about blowing the engine on the way to work, but a reduction in lifespan.
As for plane engines, almost nothing crosses over from planes to cars. It's a totally different environment and duty cycle. You also have exhaust gas temp gauges in airplanes (usually), allowing you to keep much closer track of combustion temps.

I'm not saying you should just run premium all the time because it's "better". If you have a daily driver that you're not tuning for performance and your cylinder head, exhaust gas, and/or oil temp gauges stay where they should then save your money. If you don't at least have a oil temp gauge then you really have no idea what's going on back there. That should scare you. Talk about wasting money...
Personally, I tune my engines for power while keeping the temps in line so I always end up running premium. It makes the most power.

------------------
"People who busy themselves telling what can't be done only annoy those of us out there doing it."
Tracy's Ghia Page (GhiaGirl.com) www.ghiagirl.com

[This message has been edited by phrankentruk (edited 02-19-2003).]

Goodwrench · Post by **Goodwrench** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:07 am

Then would running mid-grade fuel be a balanced option of power and economy? Reason I ask is I've always used the mid-grade since unleaded came out. Anyone remember the Sunoco stations where you dialed in the grade you wanted? You could pick between about 5 or 6 grades.

j_c_hamilton · Post by **j_c_hamilton** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:50 am

I don't see it quite that simple. Higher octane does not, strictly speaking, make more power - despite what the ad agencies say.
I use a higher octane gas because it's combustion properties allow me to safely use a wider range of tuning settings (even ones that are wrong)

.
That's what, IMO, allows my engine to devlop maximum power.

------------------
Jason Hamilton
The Online Karmann Ghia Resource
1969 & 1970 Type 143