"CLUNK"

[Robi]

So I have a '70 Westy that has a steering "clunk"! It seems to come from above the steering box. It was there before I replaced the steering box which I did in an attempt to correct the problem along with some scary front end floating at 45+mph. Haven't tried to road test the floating with the new box yet since I still have the "clunk". It happens just as I turn the steering wheel left or right and there is a little play (about2 inches) in the wheel too before it clunks. It must be either somewhere in the steering column or maybe the coupler (which appears to be OK but who knows)
Any Ideas?

[vwnate1]

You installed a USED steering box and that was not a good idea - first you need to look on the top and find the black plastic filler plug , remove and fill with 90W tranny oil , then center the box and loosen the 17MM nut and gently tighten the big screw sticking out the center untill it just stops , now back it off 1/16th of a turn and hold the screw whilst you tighten the nut - be carefull as the nut likes to tighten the screw and this will cause the box to fail , quite possibly killing you . that clunk is the mis-adjusted box working up and down as it has too much play in it . I got lucky and found a brand new box in a junk bus , was DRY of oil though - always check that oil level ! . might want to look at the bellcrank (center pivot thing) whilst a helper moves the steering wheel back and forth , if it moves up and down , - even a tiny bit - there's your wander .

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-Nate
Filth & Greed Imports
(the LAST honest VWshop)

[Robi]

I worked on the steering for about 4 hours yesterday with no luck on the "clunk". The steering box was bought from Rocky Mt as a TRW rebuilt. But I don't think I needed it now. It has been set at many different adjustments as well as what is described in the post and in the various manuals. Still clunks. From inside the cab it sounds like it is coming from below the floor. From underneath it sounds like it is coming from above the steering coupler (like the steering column and shaft). With the steering box disconnected everything turns smoothly. Could there be something inside the steering column like bearings that could break free or wear?
The clunk happens as you turn the steering wheel either side. There is about 1-2 inches of free (loose)play before resistance is met and the clunk happens. After that the wheel turns properly. As soon as you reverse the direction there is the free play again and a clunk. So the clunk happens anytime you reverse the direction of the turning regardless of the how far left or right the wheel has been turned.
This was happening with the original steering box which was why I bought the present one. I still have both and the original one is probably good since the clunk regardless of which box is installed. Both boxes by the way have 90 weight oil. Surely this has happened before and been resolved. Again, the sound appears to originate in the lower part of the steering column.

[Bob Ingman]

Robi, I do`nt know much about this particular problem though I`ve driven VW busses for years and currently have a 70 camper myself. But I`ve become curious as to the sourse of your CLUNK. I checked over at type2.com in their library under steering boxes and found an article stating that the TRW rebuilt boxes use the large bushing pitman arm (73-79) and that the 56-72 have a smaller diameter bushing. Maybe if you look over there you might find something to shine light on the subject. The library is a starting point but the archives will probably have record of someone like yourself with this same problem. I`ll be following your post with curiousity. Bob

[vwnate1]

Hmmm.....I'd check the rubber coupler ('rag joint') and the ' T ' pieces on both sides of it - the pinch bolts might be loose ? when I bought my '68 #211 the column was loose where it attaches to the floor so it wobbled around a bit and caused the horn to honk uncontrollably (that's why he disconnected it I guess) - I had to replace the little black plastic bushing and line it all up just so to make solid .

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-Nate
Filth & Greed Imports
(the LAST honest VWshop)

[Robi]

Just completed changing out the steering coupler with a new OEM VW coupler. Now all components of the steering system from the coupler to the front wheels have either been replaced or quadruple checked for integrety by 2 highly respected mechanics, a long time type II enthusiast and myself. We are all satisfied that these areas are proper. Yet the "clunk" is still there. It appears to originate from just above the steering coupler. Of course the sound could be traveling down from the top of the column and exiting out the bottom of the hollow steering colum. Is there anything inside the steering column between the shaft and the tube that could be shifting everytime you change direction in steering when the system is all connected? When disconnected from the steering box the steering wheel (once you turn the key to release the steering wheel lock)will spin freely in either direction. No clunk. It must be inside the shaft but only happens when everything is connected and there is the normal light resistance to turning the steering wheel.

[vwnate1]

Wow , I'm stumped - wish it was closer as I really enjoy figuring out these wierd things

Both screws are in the floor plate ? same (short) length ? .

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-Nate
Filth & Greed Imports
(the LAST honest VWshop)

[Robi]

Well, the problems are still there after everything on the front end has been changed out. I will eventually take out the steering column to see what is inside that can go "clunk". Any Ideas?
I think the floating front end may be due to improper tires. This is the only thing left and maybe should have been the first to correct. The provious owner installed new 205R75/14 all around. These are passenger tires that probably have a lot of sidewall flex - hence the floating once I get up to 40-45mph. So now I am looking for some proper tires. I beleive these should be 185R14 that have either 6 or 8 ply with stiffer sidewalls and a shorter height. I donn't know much about tires but I think this is correct. Can anyone enlighten me? Can anyone recommend make and model tires for the Westy? Does anyone think this could be the floating problem - does anyone think I am just barking at the moon on this one? The least expensive tires I have looked into are Bridgestone 607V (or something like that) at about $75 ea. before installation, taxes, etc. Ouch!
Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

[Bob Ingman]

Robi, yes 185R/14. Load range rated C or better. type2.com has lots of good tire spec info. Figure that CLUNK out. I`m curious. Bob

[vwnate1]

Robi be sure to get c rate or better tires , some say " LT " (Light Truck) on them - I recently did this to my '68 #211 and what a difference ! NO sway anymore ! yes the tires were spendy @ $75.00 each but worht it IMO .

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-Nate
Filth & Greed Imports
(the LAST honest VWshop)

[Robi]

Thanks Bob and Nate for your help. I have a friend who can get some Cooper tires that should fit the requirements. They are 185R-14 LT with a "D" load rating and an 80,000 mile rating. He can get these for $68 ea. for me and then I have to get them mounted and balanced. He also has a Kumho with the same specs. for $50. These sound really good after the Firestone/Bridgestone said $76 for the 603's.
Once I get my ducks in a row for the mounting I will first have the present tires removed and then paint the wheels inside and out before the new tires are installed.
With my work schedule this might take some time. Any suggestions on a good durable wheel paint.
The "clunk" will have to wait untill the new tires are installed and I have a chance to test them out. I'll be sure to keep you updated on the reason for the clunk when I find it. I can't be the only one who has had this problem so it would only be right to pass along what I find to help someone else.

[Bob Ingman]

Robi as far as wheel paint is concerned the trend seems to be powder coating. However on my 70 ASI Riviera camper I used Rustoueum Gloss Black(brushed) and with the addition of new deluxe chromed hubcaps I could`nt be happier. It looks very good. In a year and a half it still looks good. Bob.

[vwnate1]

I have been powder coating my wheels for some time now , it's actually cheaper than painting and they do all the prep ! looks really good and lasts forever , paint doesn't .
That being said , I tried , on my buddies advice , some Urethane wheel paint in a
foo-foo can from Kragen auto parts - I sand blasted the rim first , it was the only origianl rim I have for my old 356 Porsche and I painted it silver with this stuff - just incredible ! looks great . it is wheel paint , not regular paint and resists chipping much better than regular paint does . Epoxy paint works quite well too .

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-Nate
Filth & Greed Imports
(the LAST honest VWshop)

[Bob Ingman]

Robi, here`s a photo of the van though it does`nt show the wheels that well. Bob

[bob mrazik]

ok, here's one that might have been missed; a friend of mine through whom i've gotten my 67 westy, said that he encountered a mysterious "clunk" and eventually found that the frame member (i'm guessing that this is what the steering box is mounted to )was cracked. through old age i assume.
when he rewelded the crack, the "clunk" dissappeared.
might be worth investigating.


as always: just my 2 cents worth
bob