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Hi all.
I'm running a stock 1600 motor in the back of my '67 but was wondering if anyone else out there is doing the same and if so, what jet sizes are you running?
The motor is a stock 1600, 009 dizzy and a 1 1/2 inch SS header with a 2inch bore turbo muffler.
I'm running 28mm chokes, 140 mains, 210 air correctors and 55 idles with 40 pump jets, but the milage is pretty appauling! like 20mpg on a run, less around town. I'm thinking of giong down to a 120 main, but not sure about the air correctors....anyone?
Mike Ghia

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40 IDF's with a 1600 motor...jetting

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Author Topic: 40 IDF's with a 1600 motor...jetting
Michael Ghia
Member
Posts: 378
From:Glasgow
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 16-05-2001 01:01 PM
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Hi all.
I'm running a stock 1600 motor in the back of my '67 but was wondering if anyone else out there is doing the same and if so, what jet sizes are you running?
The motor is a stock 1600, 009 dizzy and a 1 1/2 inch SS header with a 2inch bore turbo muffler.
I'm running 28mm chokes, 140 mains, 210 air correctors and 55 idles with 40 pump jets, but the milage is pretty appauling! like 20mpg on a run, less around town. I'm thinking of giong down to a 120 main, but not sure about the air correctors....anyone?
Mike Ghia
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Nut from the land of Porsche.



66 SPLIT
Member
Posts: 33
From:Bodge-it & Leggit VW Tooling Industries
Registered: May 2001
posted 16-05-2001 01:59 PM
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I've just fitted a pair of 36DRLAS to my stock 1600. The carbs have 30 Venturis, 120 mains, 60 idles, 50 pump jets, 180 air correctors.
I'd recommend getting the CB performance superformance tech book which covers just about everything regarding suitable jetting for engine sizes etc. and all you need to know about carbs and setting them up.
(I don't work for CB Performance, but if they wanna give me some commision for my sales technique then thats fine by me!)



Michael Ghia
Member
Posts: 378
From:Glasgow
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 16-05-2001 03:40 PM
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Cool, thanks for the info. What did you use to rev the engine up to? I'm pretty sure that I'm getting valve bounce at 5500rpm.
Mike Ghia
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Nut from the land of Porsche.



Nic B-C*
Member
Posts: 2398
From:Crawley, West Sussex
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 16-05-2001 08:43 PM
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40's seem a little excessive for a stock 1600, 36's would be a far better choice or a single progressive 32/36


66 SPLIT
Member
Posts: 33
From:Bodge-it & Leggit VW Tooling Industries
Registered: May 2001
posted 17-05-2001 09:40 AM
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I've only taken the revs upto 4500rpm so far as it still needs a full tune up, plus it starts screaming its nuts off. It goes like bloody stink though now!
The only mods otherwise to the engine are a CB Performance maxi-flow oil pump and Mahle filter and a high flow fuel pump. I'm thinking of fitting ratio rocker to the heads, but that'll have to wait...


MdR
Member
Posts: 723
From:West Sussex, the house with the yellow 914 in the drive; although some would say in my own little world . . .
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 17-05-2001 11:03 AM
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Nic
Single progressives have a pants manifold.
Twin carbs (singles or dual) are always gonna be better.
Martin


bren
Member
Posts: 2686
From:Russia:With:Love
Registered: Feb 2000
posted 17-05-2001 12:26 PM
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hahah mike!! youre like me.. "redline" on a stock 1600 is supposed to be 4800-5000rpm.. but i too overrev mine, and i too get valve bounce at around 5500-ish [i say 'ish' cos i dont got a tacho.. but my ears reckon its at around 5500 or thereabouts]
i think you [we] need a shiftlight.. that centremain bearing wont last too long if that stock crank is overrevved regularly!


Michael Ghia
Member
Posts: 378
From:Glasgow
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 17-05-2001 03:16 PM
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Cheers guys... I'll agree with you on the shift light Bren... a nice idea. I have just stuck 115 mains in, I don't think I've lost power and once I retuned the carbs, (mixture at idle) they pick up a lot quicker from idle. There is still a bit of a stutter though so I'm gonna stick 50 pump jets in and also go down to a 50 idle jet.
I may be getting confused but.... with air corrector jets, you go bigger to go leaner...so surely a 210 air corrector is gonna be better suited to my 1600 than a 180????? ayone???
Nic, I know I should have fitted a set of 36's to it but as I got 3 pairs of 40's for £60!!!!.......
Mike Ghia
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Nut from the land of Porsche.



DavidG
Member
Posts: 779
From:From a Mush in Shepherds Bush.. bush bush bush bush bush bush bush
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 17-05-2001 05:34 PM
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my 36s are partly to blame (my right foot for the rest) for my snapped crank shaft and that was in a relatily new case god knows what the centre main is like now
20 year old crank shaft and drlas don't go for long at 4000rpm nevermind 5000

oops

I stuck with 28mm chokes for a bit of bottom end ooompf and was indeed surprised at the affect that a nice set of carbs made on my mild 1600

40s are fine, no probs you just need to get your chokes right and work from that and your max rpm to get your idles and mains, The book is excellent. or use paul caves article on drlas (back issues) for a quick set up guide

45s or 48s would work just as well as long as they are set up right. They are just more future proof if you do descide to build a 2.5 lite motor that may demand a larger than 34mm choke (the max you could squeeeze into a 36). The spacing of all the carb structures is the same on the whole idf range as far as i can see, just the holes down the middle are bigger stick in a narrow choke and you get more or less the same effect as running a smaller carb. 40s are also slightly less obsolete than their smaller 36mm brothers so bits n bobs should be easy to get new.

Its a good laugh when someone says what you got in the back of their 1776? and you can grin and go naaa 1600 mate. oooh i am sad

tata

Dave



Paul F
Member
Posts: 605
From:London
Registered: May 2000
posted 17-05-2001 06:40 PM
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40s are fine for this engine, a 36 DRLA will outflow a 40 IDF whilst still working ok, I ran 34 vents in 36DRLAs and still had progression;
For reference;

Test conducted on a Superflow 110 flow bench at a pressure rating of 10 inches. Each carb was tested as supplied by manufacturer

36DRLA = 205.8cfm
40IDF = 212.8cfm
40DRLA = 266.4cfm
44IDF = 292.3cfm
45DRLA = 329.3cfm

cfm = cubic feet per minute

The tests were conducted on individual carburetors without air cleaners or intake manifolds.

The use of two carburetors results double the flow ie two 45DRLAs result in a total 658.6cfm flow potential.


Mr Big
Member
Posts: 377
From:Coventry, England Please buy my 67 1500, its very solid and MOT'd!!
Registered: Jan 2001
posted 17-05-2001 07:14 PM
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What sort of power are you nutters getting out of your stock 1600's with 36's or 40's on?? Sounds interesting, I need to knock a motor together for one of my cars, and this sounds like a reasonably cheap method, seeing as I've already got some 40's.


tobiasax
Junior Member
Posts: 26
From:Huddinge, Sweden
Registered: Sep 2000
posted 17-05-2001 09:34 PM
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Paul,
What size venturies did you use when flow testing the carbs?
What do you mean by "The use of two carburetors results double the flow"? As far as I know it you are only using one choke at a time. 3-4-2-1.



tobiasax
Junior Member
Posts: 26
From:Huddinge, Sweden
Registered: Sep 2000
posted 17-05-2001 09:44 PM
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Ooops, got the firing order wrong in my last post...



Paul F
Member
Posts: 605
From:London
Registered: May 2000
posted 17-05-2001 09:48 PM
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Tobias,
The tests were carried out by CB Performance, in the early 80s. They used carbs as supplied by the maufacturers therefore;

36 DRLA = 30mm Venturi
40 IDF = 28mm Venturi
40 DRLA = 34mm Venturi
44 IDF = 36mm Venturi
45 DRLA = 38mm Venturi

The flow figures given were for one carb, ie two chokes. As we use the carbs in pairs we can double the figures given.

The CFM rating of an intake system is directly related to the potential HP output of the engine the higher the CFM rating the greater the HP potential. Hence why the IDA is still the king of carbs.

The DRLA is a much better designed carb than the IDF with better progression allowing it to run happilly with the larger vents supplied.

[This message has been edited by Paul F (edited 17-05-2001).]



Nic B-C*
Member
Posts: 2398
From:Crawley, West Sussex
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 17-05-2001 10:26 PM
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Cheers for all the figures Paul these will come in handy when I build up an engine for my 55 ragtop oval. David how is the single progressive 32/36 difficult with a stock 1600 as I believe this is exactly what they were built for. I would really like to know any information any of you have as I save all of these types of post for future reference]
Cheers



Alex
Member
Posts: 539
From:Lincoln - A flat place not far from the sea
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 17-05-2001 10:49 PM
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Sorry Nic - the progressive weber 32/36 was designed for the ford pinto engine as per cortina etc - not the flat 4, hot Flat 4s derived from the vw engine such as 356/912 engines always used duals - solexes or webers - If porsche decided not to use the 32/36 then I would tend to agree !!!!


Paul F
Member
Posts: 605
From:London
Registered: May 2000
posted 17-05-2001 10:57 PM
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Progressive carbs are fine, most people moan about them because they don't set them up correctly.


Nic B-C*
Member
Posts: 2398
From:Crawley, West Sussex
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 17-05-2001 11:27 PM
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Yeah I know and I have two from that very source sitting in my shed outside. They are not a bad carb and do work well if as Paul says, they are set up correctly. The main problem with these carbs as far as I know especially when used on a 2 litre camper is the length of the manifold causing excessive problems with icing.


john moyles
Junior Member
Posts: 9
From: i a napa
Registered: May 2001
posted 17-05-2001 11:45 PM
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i got a recorded 75bhp on my 1641cc on a rolling road, 110 cam lightened and balanced, 36idf's, sounds a lot i know, i was very surprised at the result revs to 6000rpm no probs although i don't take it there very often, i think there is alot to be said for the baby 1600 on the street, very drivable engine and good cheap performance!!!!!!!!
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chicken chicken



s,axel
Member
Posts: 980
From:manchester.
Registered: Jan 2001
posted 18-05-2001 08:47 AM
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im runing twin 40 k,duds on a 1641cc engle 110 hemi hemi 3angle valve heads ligthend and ballenced bottom end goes loverly. not to bad on the mpg 25-30 ish.
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2110cc in the pipe line.
im using 044s by CB & a 82mm forged STROKER crank & 1/4/1 ratio rockers by autocraft all are hidden around the house .the bits all came from jmr .and i have a deposit on some 45 dellorto,s yummy /luverly jubbely.will keep you posted on the latest news right here.still have a way to go so will keep you posted.
Sorry, but you did ask.




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Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.45c

Whats up everybody?
It looks like you're the guys I need to talk to. I'm running 1600 w/ 120 cam, 044 ported polishd, 3 angle valve job flowing some 44 idf's. small venturi's & it's been so long since I jetted the carbs I can't remember what they are, but here's my prob. Having probs with the progression when extreme load is put on the engine. At the top of 1st & 2nd gear engine starts to sputter. Then I get thru that range & runs great again. Any ideas?....GQ <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Ghia:
<B>Hi all.
I'm running a stock 1600 motor in the back of my '67 but was wondering if anyone else out there is doing the same and if so, what jet sizes are you running?
The motor is a stock 1600, 009 dizzy and a 1 1/2 inch SS header with a 2inch bore turbo muffler.
I'm running 28mm chokes, 140 mains, 210 air correctors and 55 idles with 40 pump jets, but the milage is pretty appauling! like 20mpg on a run, less around town. I'm thinking of giong down to a 120 main, but not sure about the air correctors....anyone?
Mike Ghia

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>