I failed emissions!

thinger · Post by **thinger** » Sat Jul 06, 2002 9:38 am

I took my car in yesterday for it's annual emissions test. It as my first test since I installed my new engine. I was expecting it to fail since I'm running dual Kadrons. My brother said he had a great deal if difficulty getting it to pass emissions with the dual kads installed. He always switched to he old engine, had it tested and then switched it back. That's a little extreme for me since it takes me all day to do the engine swap.

Here are my test results;

Hydrocarbons
Under load max; 400ppm
My car; 324ppm

Idle Max; 400ppm
My car; 950ppm (failed)

Carbon Monoxide
Under load max; 4.2%
My car; 3.92%

Idle max; 5.5%
My car; 4.83%

The only setting that I failed on was idle hydrocarbons. The problem is that the other settings are pretty close to failing. If I do anything to reduce the hydrocarbons at idle, I think it will push the CO over the limit. I also think the load setting is only going 30 to 40 mph which is still running on the idle jets. How do I adjust the idle settings separate from the loaded setting when they're both using the same jets?

I was hoping to have it converted to fuel injection by now but I haven't been able to get to it. The money I was saving up just got sucked up by $1200 in repairs to my (house) air conditioner. According to the brochure, I have to spend at least $200 before I can get a waiver. Anyone know how I can spend $200 towards my fuel injection parts but make it look like I'm trying to fix my emissions? I'm thinking about buying the manifolds to fix a possible "leak" in my existing ones. (It's just a thought)

P.S. I'm going on vacation tomorrow morning. I'll be back next Thursday the 11th. Cheers!

[This message has been edited by thinger (edited 07-06-2002).]

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 12:14 pm

Hmn, grab a tank of 93 Octane amoco gas, and drive it as hard as possible before having it checked..this normally works.

Those Kads do burn nastily..

Jeff S · Post by **Jeff S** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:03 am

Doesn't AZ have a law about cars so old don't have to pass emissions. Here in Texas if your car is older than 25 years, it doesn't apply to you.

Post by **Marc** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:03 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by MASSIVE TYPE IV:


...Those Kads do burn nastily..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never had any trouble making them pass WA state emissions with a stock/nearstock cam on anything from a 1600 sp to an 1835; normally nothing more than a good synch & mixture adjustment and make sure the accelerator pump nozzles aren't dripping.

thinger · Post by **thinger** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:51 pm

Weak ignition can cause high HC too - is everything in good order there?

I have a CDI ignition system with an Ignitor II and new plugs.

What's the cam in this puppy?

I think its a 110 Web cam. I adjust the valves every 1500 miles. The engine is an 1944cc type 1 built by Jake at Aircooled Technologies with 7000 miles on it so far. The carbs are carefully sync'd. It runs really well except it's a little rough at idle.

How does the idle speed effect emissions? I usually set the idle to 900rpm but I can tell that on the road, it idles faster than that. I figured it was because the linkage was opening things up a bit. Would slowing the idle speed down lower my emissions?

Post by **Marc** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:12 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by thinger:
Would slowing the idle speed down lower my emissions?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In all likelihood it'll clean up at HIGHER RPM if the problem is the cam as I suspect. They won't test in WA if you're idling at 1100 - dunno about AZ.
What gear are they doing the load test in? I'd think you'd want 2nd, if they insist on 3rd you need some short rear tires.

thinger · Post by **thinger** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:01 pm

You're going to end up in a debate with Jake if you start questioning his selection of cams

.

I tend to think it's a problem with the Kadrons. I had a lot of trouble getting them adjusted. Seems like if I take the idle jets down one step, it runs like crap. At the current setting, it runs rich but well. I may have to try putting the old Pict 34 back on. Its a pain to get things adjusted but it's a hell of a lot easier than changing the cam.

The DMV workers didn't have any way to check the RPM since I don't have a tach hooked up. They don't seem to know how to handle an older vehicle. The poor guy who was trying to check my gas cap seemed very confused that it wouldn't screw onto his little vacuum tester. Maybe I'll just add some alcohol to the tank, bump up the idle to 1500rpm and try again.

By the way, I appreciate all the help!

[This message has been edited by thinger (edited 07-10-2002).]

Post by **Marc** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:19 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by thinger:
You're going to end up in a debate with Jake if you start questioning his selection of cams .
B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WA State Dep't of Ecology keeps a data base of problem vehicles (they even grant special exemptions or come up with alternate custom test procedures for cars that just can't seem to pass) and what repairs/adjustments were needed to get them through testing.
#1 cause of ACVW failures is the cam selection.
No point in debating it.

With the HC as high as it is, I'd believe your engine would run worse with leaner idle. Have you checked to see if the accel pumps have the drip?

------------------
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." --H.L. Mencken
`67, 69, `77 Beetles, `73 II (Type I engine), `86 Audi 5000s, etc. etc.
Independent VW specialist shop manager/unit repairman 1978-1991

thinger · Post by **thinger** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jeff S:
Doesn't AZ have a law about cars so old don't have to pass emissions. Here in Texas if your car is older than 25 years, it doesn't apply to you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes but it's not a rolling number. Anything older than 1967 does not need to be tested. It's been that way for years. The legislature would have to pass a law to change it. It's probably not going to happen. There are voices trying to get the 1966 exception removed because "older cars pollute more".

It kind of sucks. My '59 Chevy pickup is my only vehicle that's exempt and it doesn't run!

thinger · Post by **thinger** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by MASSIVE TYPE IV:
Hmn, grab a tank of 93 Octane amoco gas, and drive it as hard as possible before having it checked..this normally works.

Those Kads do burn nastily..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a good idea except for one thing, there are no Amoco gas stations anywhere near hear. Come to think of it, I haven't seen ANYTHING with a 93 octane in quite a while...

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:18 pm

Drive out to the airport and get av gas. It`ll work fine. Good luck. Bob Ingman

Post by **Marc** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:50 pm

AvGas might help, ~10-15% alcohol surely will with the CO numbers, which are too high (should be down around 1.5%) but the big problem is the HC which will be worse if you go any leaner. Weak ignition can cause high HC too - is everything in good order there?
What's the cam in this puppy? It shouldn't be that dirty unless it's got too much overlap; easy enough to verify if that's the situation by checking what the emissions do with the valves temporarily adjusted loose.

thinger · Post by **thinger** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 9:12 am

I'm not sure what you mean by "the drip". When I had the Kads off, I followed the directions to make sure that there was no lag between when the accelerator was pushed and the squirt of gas. They weren't leaking or anything even with the accelerator pump full.

Which cam should I have? I'm pretty sure it's got a web 110. Would a different one have been better? I don't really know anything about cams. I don't even know what the 110 means.

Post by **Marc** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 9:27 am

Sometimes when you have the Kadron accelerator pumps "hair-triggered" to eliminate lag, they'll end up dribbling fuel every couple seconds at idle/steady speed - just take the aircleaners off and watch `em, if they're dripping you might try backing off a little on the adjustment.
Here's a link that gives the specs for many cams for the VW: http://www.phnet.fi/public/hefor1/vwinfoca.htm
The higher duration number is the "advertised duration" which is the only one that's normally discussed when comparing cams. (The Web 110 is 284° with .435" lift using stock rockers).
Don't get me wrong, that's a good all-around street cam EXCEPT it can be tough to get past emissions tests - it's been done, but they seldom sail through. Something like the 119 (in a Web) would have a better chance, and idle better too although it would lose some top-end power.

4SPEED · Post by **4SPEED** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:03 pm

If they don't have a way to check your rpms at the station, then raise your idle to about 1200-1400 rpms and it will pass. Also tighten the mixture screws about a 1/4 of a turn. The cam at idle makes the HC go up.

Patrick www.wide5.com

[This message has been edited by 4SPEED (edited 07-15-2002).]